Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a different invitation letter

"Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com> Tue, 11 September 2018 18:44 UTC

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From: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com>
To: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
CC: "103attendees@ietf.org" <103attendees@ietf.org>, 102attendees <102attendees@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a different invitation letter
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/102attendees/XLAB219BfZ2iDheYlS4VTmDHtAs>
Subject: Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a different invitation letter
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Hi John,

Whether an individual person needs a VISA is based on individual circumstances (origin country,etc).

But I think whether Thailand considers (typical) participation at IETF to be "business" vs "tourist" (or whatever categories Thailand uses) is the same for everyone and purely based on Thailand immigration authority determination of how they consider IETF attendance.

Why do you say it could be "business for some" and not for others ?  I think this thread is mainly concerned with the typical conference attendee.

Jason

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 2:06 PM
> To: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <jason.sterne@nokia.com>
> Cc: 103attendees@ietf.org; 102attendees <102attendees@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a different invitation letter
> 
> 
> 
> --On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 16:56 +0000 "Sterne, Jason
> (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com> wrote:
> 
> >...
> > Everyone has their own circumstances, but it is really a shame
> > that we (IETF as an organization) can't get a definitive
> > statement from the Thai authorities (i.e. in writing that we
> > can all print & bring) that attending this conference is not
> > considered as "business" by Thailand.  That would save a lot
> > of grief (and same was true for Buenos Aires and will be true
> > for many future IETFs).
> 
> First of all, this is not really about Thailand but about
> general practices.  Your comments about Argentina reinforce
> that.  Second, it could be "business" for some of us and not for
> others, so, in the case of some countries and circumstances, the
> answer may not be that the meeting is or is not "business" for
> all participants.
> 
> It may well be a shame, and probably is, but the only times I'm
> aware of getting that sort of guarantee (or clear and binding
> statement) from a government (at least a government that has not
> established a visa category for "standards body meeting" or
> equivalent) is when the government is actually a sponsor of the
> meeting.   There may well be exceptions (my experience is
> definitely not comprehensive) but, by and large, what people
> have been experiencing is fairly normal.   And, for whatever it
> worth, there are actually reasons for it that, from the
> perspective of the government, provide motivation to behave
> exactly the way people, especially local consulates, are
> behaving.  Those reasons go well beyond lack of motivation even
> though, in some cases, that might be part of the picture too.
> 
> Get the best information you can about your situation and people
> holding passports (or other travel documents) from your country,
> act as conservatively about it as you think appropriate, and
> then go for it, hoping for the best and making whatever
> contingency plans you think appropriate.
> 
> If you need guarantees, especially guarantees you can enforce,
> you are probably better off participating remotely.
> 
>    john
>