Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a different invitation letter

Christian Hopps <chopps@gmail.com> Fri, 07 September 2018 11:01 UTC

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From: Christian Hopps <chopps@gmail.com>
To: Robert Wilton <rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: Artyom Gavrichenkov <ximaera@gmail.com>, 103attendees@ietf.org, 102attendees <102attendees@ietf.org>
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Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2018 07:01:22 -0400
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Subject: Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a different invitation letter
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+1

I have to admit this thread has made me wonder if I should skip this one. I'll probably go, but I'm not going to go through all the hassle of getting a work-visa. I guess I'm risking being turned around at the border, which is annoying given it takes more than 24 hours of travel for me to get there.

Thanks,
Chris.

Robert Wilton <rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> writes:

> Hi Artyom,
>
> I presume that Andrew's email is probably this one:
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/v_vECz7MtHUiMfu7INCh9VmJSKc
>
> Or, otherwise this query makes it fairly easy to see other likely
> candidate emails:
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/?q=Andrew#
>
> Personally I'm not inclined to apply for work visa, it seems a bit
> arduous, so the choice I'm trying to decide between is do I travel on
> the tourist visa-waver, or do I skip this meeting.
>
> FWIW, my current conclusion of this thread (traveling from the UK) is
> that a tourist visa/visa-waver is sufficient, but I would need to be
> careful about what I say when entering, along the lines of what Mehmet
> suggested previously, i.e. attending a technical conference, etc.
>
> I've never been to Thailand before, so may also tack a couple of extra
> days of tourism on the end anyway.
>
> Regards,
> Rob
>
>
> On 06/09/2018 18:58, Artyom Gavrichenkov wrote:
>> I have decided it's a good idea to be more explicit regarding this
>> piece. Answers inline,
>>
>>> See the earlier comments by Andrew Sullivan
>> ...which no one to date has bothered to give a hyperlink to (though
>> Mr. Eckert and me have both kindly asked for that quite a few times).
>>
>> The best direction on where to look for those comments was: "Andrew
>> Sullivan's explanation on the IETF list". Nah. Never knew there's only
>> one mailing list in the IETF.
>>
>>> and John Klensin.
>>> Everybody has to make their own decisions about this and get definitive advice specific to their individual circumstances from the relevant embassy/consulate. It’s that simple.
>> Sorry, but it is *not* that simple.
>>
>> Though I'm somewhat younger and definitely less experienced than you,
>> I've lived most of my life under a citizenship which pretty much
>> doesn't get you a visa waiver in most of the countries out there, and
>> I have a different view over this one.
>>
>> With all due respect to all the countries in the world, for *most* of
>> them, it is *not* possible to get a definitive advice from a consulate
>> or embassy. Sometimes the [visa] regulations are vague and unclear.
>> Sometimes, on the other hand, they are overly strict and the consulate
>> is afraid of assigning too much of permissions to you. Sometimes, the
>> consulate doesn't know much about those regulations at all and is just
>> acting according to their own common sense.
>>
>> Each time you face it, it's one-on-one. The other side might be too
>> strict or too permissive. The more information you have, the more
>> definitive facts you're able to bring into play — the more chances you
>> have to ask the right questions and convince the other side to settle
>> on a decision which is best to you.
>>
>>>> Is it an overly optimistic idea to bring someone from the host to the thread and ask them for advice?
>>> Yes. It’s utterly impractical to expect anyone to provide advice on visa issues which will or won’t apply to everyone going to an IETF meeting.
>> Repeating once again: "I'm perfectly aware there are complicated
>> scenarios out there which the host may not know how to handle, but the
>> case of a EU citizen coming to the proposed international event looks
>> rather straightforward and typical for me."
>>
>> See? I wasn't speaking about "everyone" from the very beginning.
>>
>> | Töma Gavrichenkov
>> | gpg: 2deb 97b1 0a3c 151d b67f 1ee5 00e7 94bc 4d08 9191
>> | mailto: ximaera@gmail.com
>> | fb: ximaera
>> | telegram: xima_era
>> | skype: xima_era
>> | tel. no: +7 916 515 49 58
>>
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