Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a different invitation letter

John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> Tue, 11 September 2018 18:06 UTC

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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 14:06:25 -0400
From: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
To: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com>
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Subject: Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a different invitation letter
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--On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 16:56 +0000 "Sterne, Jason
(Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com> wrote:

>...
> Everyone has their own circumstances, but it is really a shame
> that we (IETF as an organization) can't get a definitive
> statement from the Thai authorities (i.e. in writing that we
> can all print & bring) that attending this conference is not
> considered as "business" by Thailand.  That would save a lot
> of grief (and same was true for Buenos Aires and will be true
> for many future IETFs).

First of all, this is not really about Thailand but about
general practices.  Your comments about Argentina reinforce
that.  Second, it could be "business" for some of us and not for
others, so, in the case of some countries and circumstances, the
answer may not be that the meeting is or is not "business" for
all participants.

It may well be a shame, and probably is, but the only times I'm
aware of getting that sort of guarantee (or clear and binding
statement) from a government (at least a government that has not
established a visa category for "standards body meeting" or
equivalent) is when the government is actually a sponsor of the
meeting.   There may well be exceptions (my experience is
definitely not comprehensive) but, by and large, what people
have been experiencing is fairly normal.   And, for whatever it
worth, there are actually reasons for it that, from the
perspective of the government, provide motivation to behave
exactly the way people, especially local consulates, are
behaving.  Those reasons go well beyond lack of motivation even
though, in some cases, that might be part of the picture too. 

Get the best information you can about your situation and people
holding passports (or other travel documents) from your country,
act as conservatively about it as you think appropriate, and
then go for it, hoping for the best and making whatever
contingency plans you think appropriate.  

If you need guarantees, especially guarantees you can enforce,
you are probably better off participating remotely.

   john