Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a different invitation letter

Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> Tue, 11 September 2018 18:53 UTC

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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 20:52:50 +0200
From: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
To: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com>
Cc: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>, "103attendees@ietf.org" <103attendees@ietf.org>, 102attendees <102attendees@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a different invitation letter
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On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 06:44:19PM +0000, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) wrote:
> Why do you say it could be "business for some" and not for others ?  I think this thread is mainly concerned with the typical conference attendee.

One distinction of course is how you receive money for your conference
attendance. For example, it was not clear to me from the refernces to
thai law circulated on this thread why for example IETF secretariat
staff might need a visa if they would not need one (as per their
passport) if they where attendees. In both cases, you get paid by your
employer to be at the conference and perform likely your "normal" job chores.
But someone here on the thread suggested that IETF staff might need
visa. The way i read the information available, you would have to be
paid for by a thai source before you needed a work/business visa.

Maybe the real issue is that countries with Visa Waiver programs need
a contact specifically for those visa waiver programs. The consulates/
embassies have a clear conflict of interest and maybe are also
unqualified to provide Visa Waiver guidance.

Toerless

> Jason
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 2:06 PM
> > To: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <jason.sterne@nokia.com>
> > Cc: 103attendees@ietf.org; 102attendees <102attendees@ietf.org>
> > Subject: Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a different invitation letter
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 16:56 +0000 "Sterne, Jason
> > (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com> wrote:
> > 
> > >...
> > > Everyone has their own circumstances, but it is really a shame
> > > that we (IETF as an organization) can't get a definitive
> > > statement from the Thai authorities (i.e. in writing that we
> > > can all print & bring) that attending this conference is not
> > > considered as "business" by Thailand.  That would save a lot
> > > of grief (and same was true for Buenos Aires and will be true
> > > for many future IETFs).
> > 
> > First of all, this is not really about Thailand but about
> > general practices.  Your comments about Argentina reinforce
> > that.  Second, it could be "business" for some of us and not for
> > others, so, in the case of some countries and circumstances, the
> > answer may not be that the meeting is or is not "business" for
> > all participants.
> > 
> > It may well be a shame, and probably is, but the only times I'm
> > aware of getting that sort of guarantee (or clear and binding
> > statement) from a government (at least a government that has not
> > established a visa category for "standards body meeting" or
> > equivalent) is when the government is actually a sponsor of the
> > meeting.   There may well be exceptions (my experience is
> > definitely not comprehensive) but, by and large, what people
> > have been experiencing is fairly normal.   And, for whatever it
> > worth, there are actually reasons for it that, from the
> > perspective of the government, provide motivation to behave
> > exactly the way people, especially local consulates, are
> > behaving.  Those reasons go well beyond lack of motivation even
> > though, in some cases, that might be part of the picture too.
> > 
> > Get the best information you can about your situation and people
> > holding passports (or other travel documents) from your country,
> > act as conservatively about it as you think appropriate, and
> > then go for it, hoping for the best and making whatever
> > contingency plans you think appropriate.
> > 
> > If you need guarantees, especially guarantees you can enforce,
> > you are probably better off participating remotely.
> > 
> >    john
> > 
> 
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