Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems - need a different invitation letter

Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com> Tue, 11 September 2018 19:27 UTC

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From: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 12:27:47 -0700
In-Reply-To: <28A91716-185D-4475-A548-6F20CFEB2DE2@redfish-solutions.com>
Cc: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, Christian Hopps <chopps@gmail.com>, 102attendees <102attendees@ietf.org>, 103attendees@ietf.org, Artyom Gavrichenkov <ximaera@gmail.com>, Robert Wilton <rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
To: Philip Prindeville <philipp@redfish-solutions.com>
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Subject: Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems - need a different invitation letter
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Phillip,

> On Sep 11, 2018, at 11:26 AM, Philip Prindeville <philipp@redfish-solutions.com> wrote:
> 
> Signed PGP part
> At the very least it raises the question of whether it’s worth having further IETF’s in Thailand.

As far as I can tell, the issue here is what kind of visa one needs (tourist or business).  It’s not about getting into the country at all.

This doesn’t seem like an issue that should keep the IETF from having another meeting in Thailand.

We wouldn’t be having any IETF meetings anywhere if there was a requirement like visas are not required for anyone.

Bob


> 
> -Philip
> 
> 
>> On Sep 7, 2018, at 7:01 AM, Christian Hopps <chopps@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> +1
>> 
>> I have to admit this thread has made me wonder if I should skip this one. I'll probably go, but I'm not going to go through all the hassle of getting a work-visa. I guess I'm risking being turned around at the border, which is annoying given it takes more than 24 hours of travel for me to get there.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Chris.
>> 
>> Robert Wilton <rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> writes:
>> 
>>> Hi Artyom,
>>> 
>>> I presume that Andrew's email is probably this one:
>>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/v_vECz7MtHUiMfu7INCh9VmJSKc
>>> 
>>> Or, otherwise this query makes it fairly easy to see other likely
>>> candidate emails:
>>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/?q=Andrew#
>>> 
>>> Personally I'm not inclined to apply for work visa, it seems a bit
>>> arduous, so the choice I'm trying to decide between is do I travel on
>>> the tourist visa-waver, or do I skip this meeting.
>>> 
>>> FWIW, my current conclusion of this thread (traveling from the UK) is
>>> that a tourist visa/visa-waver is sufficient, but I would need to be
>>> careful about what I say when entering, along the lines of what Mehmet
>>> suggested previously, i.e. attending a technical conference, etc.
>>> 
>>> I've never been to Thailand before, so may also tack a couple of extra
>>> days of tourism on the end anyway.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Rob
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 06/09/2018 18:58, Artyom Gavrichenkov wrote:
>>>> I have decided it's a good idea to be more explicit regarding this
>>>> piece. Answers inline,
>>>> 
>>>>> See the earlier comments by Andrew Sullivan
>>>> ...which no one to date has bothered to give a hyperlink to (though
>>>> Mr. Eckert and me have both kindly asked for that quite a few times).
>>>> 
>>>> The best direction on where to look for those comments was: "Andrew
>>>> Sullivan's explanation on the IETF list". Nah. Never knew there's only
>>>> one mailing list in the IETF.
>>>> 
>>>>> and John Klensin.
>>>>> Everybody has to make their own decisions about this and get definitive advice specific to their individual circumstances from the relevant embassy/consulate. It’s that simple.
>>>> Sorry, but it is *not* that simple.
>>>> 
>>>> Though I'm somewhat younger and definitely less experienced than you,
>>>> I've lived most of my life under a citizenship which pretty much
>>>> doesn't get you a visa waiver in most of the countries out there, and
>>>> I have a different view over this one.
>>>> 
>>>> With all due respect to all the countries in the world, for *most* of
>>>> them, it is *not* possible to get a definitive advice from a consulate
>>>> or embassy. Sometimes the [visa] regulations are vague and unclear.
>>>> Sometimes, on the other hand, they are overly strict and the consulate
>>>> is afraid of assigning too much of permissions to you. Sometimes, the
>>>> consulate doesn't know much about those regulations at all and is just
>>>> acting according to their own common sense.
>>>> 
>>>> Each time you face it, it's one-on-one. The other side might be too
>>>> strict or too permissive. The more information you have, the more
>>>> definitive facts you're able to bring into play — the more chances you
>>>> have to ask the right questions and convince the other side to settle
>>>> on a decision which is best to you.
>>>> 
>>>>>> Is it an overly optimistic idea to bring someone from the host to the thread and ask them for advice?
>>>>> Yes. It’s utterly impractical to expect anyone to provide advice on visa issues which will or won’t apply to everyone going to an IETF meeting.
>>>> Repeating once again: "I'm perfectly aware there are complicated
>>>> scenarios out there which the host may not know how to handle, but the
>>>> case of a EU citizen coming to the proposed international event looks
>>>> rather straightforward and typical for me."
>>>> 
>>>> See? I wasn't speaking about "everyone" from the very beginning.
>>>> 
>>>> | Töma Gavrichenkov
>>>> | gpg: 2deb 97b1 0a3c 151d b67f 1ee5 00e7 94bc 4d08 9191
>>>> | mailto: ximaera@gmail.com
>>>> | fb: ximaera
>>>> | telegram: xima_era
>>>> | skype: xima_era
>>>> | tel. no: +7 916 515 49 58
>>>> 
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