Re: [105attendees] Agenda Bashing was Re: Administrative Plenary Time Constraint: Must End by 21:00

Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net> Wed, 24 July 2019 17:51 UTC

Return-Path: <lberger@labn.net>
X-Original-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25943120112 for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 10:51:30 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (768-bit key) header.d=labn.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ANBky4nCOS2C for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 10:51:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gproxy8-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com (gproxy8-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [67.222.33.93]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD31D120059 for <105attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 10:51:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from CMGW (unknown [10.9.0.13]) by gproxy8.mail.unifiedlayer.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 685A21AE029 for <105attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:50:17 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id qLP7hgIohNCWJqLP7hyKxs; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:50:17 -0600
X-Authority-Reason: nr=8
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version :Date:Message-ID:From:References:Cc:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=ZlRId1nTU738SmnjvCnoE8qdKDHnhkV4X/Np67Jkqe4=; b=x/z2GwBOZkv86dk8oHHiVtIovO mdHVR5TUKAQX8QJohQ7P1Sj7RedNR6XfWCpZFLGXs9+3rQcrMo8riPWb1jPYQ6ELA3GGjNvuqnBWo dgC1OOItxYydwnbMlRoVqJaZU;
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=14863 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <lberger@labn.net>) id 1hqLP7-004Dsq-45; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:50:17 -0600
To: john heasley <heas@shrubbery.net>, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Cc: 105attendees@ietf.org, IAB <iab@iab.org>, ietf@ietf.org, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
References: <556DAC1F-F4EB-4986-AFF2-F616376F77C3@ietf.org> <9f207e34-ed63-610c-98c9-7ef7a4543d42@comcast.net> <A9CE1857-CB50-401F-93A3-E89C567601EB@vpnc.org> <52017F86-D123-48B1-8A08-1E4C885C80A2@akamai.com> <20422AA6-BED4-4A7F-9083-1F9653BDD6CC@gmail.com> <16238.1563985779@dooku.sandelman.ca> <C50E71A6-0AC6-4D53-B2CC-B8D7F19488BD@fugue.com> <20190724173723.GG70671@shrubbery.net>
From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
Message-ID: <b5ad6a9a-eca0-33ee-f754-8d46d7074617@labn.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 13:50:13 -0400
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <20190724173723.GG70671@shrubbery.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Language: en-US
X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report
X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com
X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org
X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net
X-BWhitelist: no
X-Source-IP: 127.0.0.1
X-Source-L: Yes
X-Exim-ID: 1hqLP7-004Dsq-45
X-Source:
X-Source-Args:
X-Source-Dir:
X-Source-Sender: ([IPv6:::1]) [127.0.0.1]:14863
X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net
X-Email-Count: 11
X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ==
X-Local-Domain: yes
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/105attendees/nCq-No4URZWm9XITd0pUMFP6Zbk>
Subject: Re: [105attendees] Agenda Bashing was Re: Administrative Plenary Time Constraint: Must End by 21:00
X-BeenThere: 105attendees@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Mailing list of all 105 attendees for official communication <105attendees.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/105attendees>, <mailto:105attendees-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/105attendees/>
List-Post: <mailto:105attendees@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:105attendees-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees>, <mailto:105attendees-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 17:51:30 -0000

On 7/24/2019 1:37 PM, john heasley wrote:
> Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 12:39:20PM -0400, Ted Lemon:
>> I think any kind of solution that involves peer pressure isn’t going to work well.
>>
>> It might make sense for us to agree in advance to some questions we would like answered, and then ask the crowd to hum “I feel that this answer was adequate” and then “I feel this answer is not complete, please continue.”
> I disagree with 7282.  I think humming is an awful approach to expressing
> dis-/interest in any topic.  1) remote attendees can not hum, nor those
> on maillists to which any question must be referred, and as/if there is a
> move toward more remote participation then even fewer can hum.  2) anonymity
> doesn't allow opponents (or proponent) to ask for explanation nor to attempt
> to persuade.  3) non-, dis- & interest often sound equal, resulting in
> nothing learned or the person with the largest diaphragm wins.
>
> Humming should not be used/seen as a solution to behavioral problems.
>
> This humming ritual should end.

It also doesn't work for those of us who have (albeit mild, in my case) 
hearing issues.

When chairing, I always ask for hands and repeat back the results for 
the audio/record.  I/we never report counts, just relative results 
(e.g., a few, more, a good number, many, etc.)

Lou

>
>