Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108

John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net> Tue, 04 August 2020 14:44 UTC

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From: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>
To: Mike Bishop <mbishop@evequefou.be>
CC: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>, Mirja Kuehlewind <mirja.kuehlewind@ericsson.com>, Bron Gondwana <brong@fastmailteam.com>, Antoni Przygienda <prz=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, "108attendees@ietf.org" <108attendees@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108
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Subject: Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108
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On Aug 4, 2020, at 10:34 AM, Mike Bishop <mbishop@evequefou.be> wrote:
> 
> The working group is not tasked with the elimination of in-person meetings.  And frankly, if you believe it is and you oppose the idea, the working group needs you speaking up against it. 

For the reasons Chris mentioned earlier, this is an unrealistic expectation. There are various WGs I consider to be working on problems that don’t need solutions, or technologies that are dead ends. I generally think it’s antisocial and counterproductive to show up at their meetings and tell them so. It’s no skin off me if they choose to spend their time in a way I consider unwise, and besides, they might be right and I might be wrong (it happens with some frequency). As far as I’m concerned, the BoF phase is when naysaying has real value; after that, it’s a waste of your time and the WG’s, and it’s just rude.

> The “only” was added to side-step an acronym the IESG decided to avoid; it refers to a meeting with no in-person attendees, not to the elimination of in-person meetings for all time.

That was a poor naming decision then, and is having real-world consequences. As we know, “naming things” is one of the two hard problems of computer science (along with cache invalidation and off-by-one errors), so I don’t mean to criticize past decisions. But now that the bug has been demonstrated in the field, it’s time for a rename. Even if the name isn’t cute.

—John