Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108

Marc Petit-Huguenin <petithug@acm.org> Tue, 04 August 2020 15:34 UTC

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To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>, John Scudder <jgs=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: Bron Gondwana <brong@fastmailteam.com>, Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>, Antoni Przygienda <prz=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, Mike Bishop <mbishop@evequefou.be>, Mirja Kuehlewind <mirja.kuehlewind@ericsson.com>, 108attendees@ietf.org
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From: Marc Petit-Huguenin <petithug@acm.org>
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Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 08:34:39 -0700
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Subject: Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108
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Just s/Only/Optionally/

Which is, I believe, what a lot of people, including me, will do anyway.

On 8/4/20 8:01 AM, Ted Lemon wrote:
> As far as I understand it, “only” is as opposed to “partly”. That is, as opposed to an in-person meeting with online participants. 
> 
> I’m a pretty strong advocate of learning how to get the benefit of in-person meetings online, both because it saves carbon and because it allows more participants. And yet I would not advocate never meeting in person. 
> 
> It might serve the community better if we could be less polarized about this. 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 4, 2020, at 10:44, John Scudder <jgs=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>>
>> On Aug 4, 2020, at 10:34 AM, Mike Bishop <mbishop@evequefou.be> wrote:
>>>
>>> The working group is not tasked with the elimination of in-person meetings.  And frankly, if you believe it is and you oppose the idea, the working group needs you speaking up against it.
>>
>> For the reasons Chris mentioned earlier, this is an unrealistic expectation. There are various WGs I consider to be working on problems that don’t need solutions, or technologies that are dead ends. I generally think it’s antisocial and counterproductive to show up at their meetings and tell them so. It’s no skin off me if they choose to spend their time in a way I consider unwise, and besides, they might be right and I might be wrong (it happens with some frequency). As far as I’m concerned, the BoF phase is when naysaying has real value; after that, it’s a waste of your time and the WG’s, and it’s just rude.
>>
>>> The “only” was added to side-step an acronym the IESG decided to avoid; it refers to a meeting with no in-person attendees, not to the elimination of in-person meetings for all time.
>>
>> That was a poor naming decision then, and is having real-world consequences. As we know, “naming things” is one of the two hard problems of computer science (along with cache invalidation and off-by-one errors), so I don’t mean to criticize past decisions. But now that the bug has been demonstrated in the field, it’s time for a rename. Even if the name isn’t cute.
>>
>> —John
>> -- 
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> 


-- 
Marc Petit-Huguenin
Email: marc@petit-huguenin.org
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