Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108

"Joel M. Halpern" <> Tue, 04 August 2020 16:16 UTC

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To: Keith Moore <>,
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From: "Joel M. Halpern" <>
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Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 12:16:43 -0400
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Subject: Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108
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There is a distinct difference between enabling conversation and 
disabling the mic queue expectation.

I observed several times that the chairs could and did enable multiple 
people to speak if there was a conversation.  All the chairs and 
participants had to do was be a little deliberate in taking down the 
last speakers permission, so if there was interaction it could occur.

However, having "I speak when I choose" as the default mode would move 
the interaction in a direction that although i perfectly capable of 
competing in I consider undesirable when I do it and harmful to many 
other people's ability to interact.


On 8/4/2020 11:55 AM, Keith Moore wrote:
> On 8/4/20 11:31 AM, wrote:
>>> let go of the control culture and open the mic(s) up.  and i do not 
>>> mean just a controlled mic queue.  no queue and let it be chaotic.  
>>> and yes, we will talk over each other until we figure out that does 
>>> not work; or maybe it will!  after an hour or three, folk will figure 
>>> out how to take turns or whatever works.  we might even have <gasp!> 
>>> conversations about a speaker's work.
>> That suggestion, while still potentially a joke, would distinctly favour:
>> - Those that speak English as a first language
>> - Those with good connectivity
>> - Those inclined to filibuster
>> - Especially: all of the above combined
>> Ergo, I do hope that it isn't being taken as a serious suggestion by 
>> anyone reading it.
> I took it as a serious suggestion, and an excellent one at that, even 
> acknowledging the limitations you cite.   I assume that the Jabber 
> channel would still be available and it's been used in the past to 
> overcome some connectivity issues.   A Chair is still necessary to 
> prevent filibusters.
> Also, I assume that the mic queue would still be available for 
> situations in which many people wanted to speak at once, and the Chair 
> could require people to use it in such situations.   But being able to 
> speak back-and-forth quickly without having to reserve media access each 
> time is, in my experience, a very useful optimization that can save a 
> great deal of time and help a working group converge on useful solutions 
> far more quickly than otherwise.
> Keith