Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108
Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> Tue, 04 August 2020 22:19 UTC
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Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2020 00:19:24 +0200
From: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
To: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>, 108attendees@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108
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I enjoy this discussion about our meeting communications culture. I even agree with some of what was said. I think we could get a lot closer to understand the reality of how bad our meetings are if we had a feedback channel for participants where they could simply press anonymously buttons to express opinions, and then we look at stats. here are a couple of buttons that could be quite popular. participants to also click buttons.. [] I do not understand this [] My question was not answered [] I do not dare to ask for a better explanation [] There was not enough time to finish an important point [] The commenter on the mike does not understand the issue [] I am getting confused by all the uncorrelated opinions expressed, can someone bring structure to this chaos [] This was grandstanding [] This was politically corect pandering etc. pp. Cheers Toerless On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 05:20:16PM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > Ted, > > > On Aug 4, 2020, at 4:12 PM, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> wrote: > > > > I consider this a serious problem. The point of getting together in realtime to have verbal discussions is that synergy happens when we do this. The best mic-line discussions are the ones where ideas are going back and forth between people quickly, not the mic lines where everybody gets to have their say, linearly. That???s just not how human beings best communicate. > > Communication is a scalability issue. > > The types of conversations that are good back and forth require a small enough set of people to have that naturally occur with people that play nice together. > > Scaling that a small level with a moderator, as you know, means the moderator is actively building sub groups for discussion. > > Once you've gotten over a certain size, you simply can't do that. If you're in person, and you've got people that place nice while waiting in the mic line, people will bounce the mic amongst themselves. But that's often at the cost of a narrow time window for verbal discussion to hit all of the people in the line and it can become unfair. > > IMO, you have to set your discussion style based on the scale of the conversation. If you want serious back and forth, the timeslot in question should be mostly verbal and only a little slideware. That's a chair problem. The chair usually asks "how long do you need to present". What is intended is "present... and take reasonable discussion?" > > -- Jeff > > -- > 108attendees mailing list > 108attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/108attendees -- --- tte@cs.fau.de
- [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Bob Hinden
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Lixia Zhang
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Carlos M. Martinez
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Keith Moore
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Stephen Farrell
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Randy Bush
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Antoni Przygienda
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Black, David
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Alexandre PETRESCU
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Tony Li
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Daniel Migault
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Leonard Giuliano
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Melchior Aelmans
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Gyan Mishra
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Tim Chown
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Christian Huitema
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Bob Hinden
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Melinda Shore
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Andre Bondi
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Toerless Eckert
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Ben Campbell
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Carsten Bormann
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Toerless Eckert
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Tim Chown
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Melinda Shore
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Praneet Kaur
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Nabil Benamar
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 David R. Oran
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Ted Lemon
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Susan Hares
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Linda Dunbar
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Toerless Eckert
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Randy Bush
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Carsten Bormann
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Randy Bush
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 John Levine
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Bret Jordan
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Wiethuechter, Adam
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Randy Bush
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Black, David
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Bron Gondwana
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Keith Moore
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Benoit Claise
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Keith Moore
- [108attendees] IETF 108 is unique ! K Mohan Raidu
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Carsten Bormann
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Carsten Bormann
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Christian Hopps
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Antoni Przygienda
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Mirja Kuehlewind
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Alexandre PETRESCU
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Alexandre PETRESCU
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Christian Hopps
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Alexandre PETRESCU
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Carsten Bormann
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Alexandre PETRESCU
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Alexandre PETRESCU
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 John Scudder
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Christian Hopps
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Ted Lemon
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Mike Bishop
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Alexandre PETRESCU
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 John Scudder
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 John Scudder
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 tom.2.hill
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Ted Lemon
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Salz, Rich
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Salz, Rich
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Carsten Bormann
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Keith Moore
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Carsten Bormann
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Keith Moore
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Ted Lemon
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Keith Moore
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Ted Lemon
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Keith Moore
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Carsten Bormann
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Ted Lemon
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Keith Moore
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Carsten Bormann
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Ted Lemon
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Ted Lemon
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Toerless Eckert
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Toerless Eckert
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Toerless Eckert
- [108attendees] Please Fix your MUA: Re: IETF 108 … Mark Andrews
- Re: [108attendees] Please Fix your MUA: Re: IETF … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [108attendees] Please Fix your MUA: Re: IETF … K Mohan Raidu
- [108attendees] Agenda aware meetecho - Re: Succes… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [108attendees] Please Fix your MUA: Re: IETF … Ted Lemon