Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108
Alexandre PETRESCU <alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr> Tue, 04 August 2020 14:22 UTC
Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr>
X-Original-To: 108attendees@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: 108attendees@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C4C33A0BC6 for <108attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 07:22:31 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.846
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.846 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.949, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Gy8jzEAJJsLI for <108attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 07:22:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7DAA33A0BC0 for <108attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 07:22:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id 074EMQ9G012371 for <108attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 16:22:26 +0200
Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id E0C38203B8E for <108attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 16:22:26 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from muguet2-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr (muguet2-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.13]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1BFA201E9B for <108attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 16:22:26 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from [10.8.35.150] (is154594.intra.cea.fr [10.8.35.150]) by muguet2-sys.intra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id 074EMQWF002184 for <108attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 16:22:26 +0200
To: 108attendees@ietf.org
References: <DF9553CF-3B73-43C3-9BCF-5160A1949EC7@gmail.com> <3b9cc8e5-a9f2-cc44-8fc5-6b7649e43343@cs.tcd.ie> <392F9FEA-BA4A-4E57-B80D-D5B288B9887A@jisc.ac.uk> <f86a44a9-1f0e-9619-1a01-d2f9c98a756a@huitema.net> <20200802025924.GH1772@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <3C71AFFA-E6D5-446C-B20A-C35B1EB8FFDF@nostrum.com> <m2eeoog2fr.wl-randy@psg.com> <BY5PR11MB4337767597051839FE069836C14D0@BY5PR11MB4337.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> <78c2bda7-ccf5-44f0-9520-f012d6949180@dogfood.fastmail.com> <b7abb72c-c1d5-52c1-c718-7c982e76d788@network-heretics.com>
From: Alexandre PETRESCU <alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr>
Organization: CEA
Message-ID: <9b3512d3-683c-14da-8c91-59ffd2316bc0@cea.fr>
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2020 16:22:25 +0200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.11.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <b7abb72c-c1d5-52c1-c718-7c982e76d788@network-heretics.com>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg="sha-256"; boundary="------------ms090903030402020607010007"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/108attendees/lus27oqnZ6k0cVzyouCorN3ta7o>
Subject: Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108
X-BeenThere: 108attendees@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Mailing list for IETF 108 attendees <108attendees.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/108attendees>, <mailto:108attendees-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/108attendees/>
List-Post: <mailto:108attendees@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:108attendees-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/108attendees>, <mailto:108attendees-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2020 14:22:31 -0000
Le 04/08/2020 à 04:32, Keith Moore a écrit : > > On 8/3/20 10:17 PM, Bron Gondwana wrote: > >> There's an assumption in here that the presenting of the slides >> doesn't have any benefit, which I don't believe is true. >> >> As the presenter talks through the slides they are aligning the >> thoughts of everybody in the room (including themselves) and hence >> when we get to the conversation, everybody has the cache state loaded >> into their brain and the conversation can be productive. I don't >> think that "read the slides in advance and come with questions" will >> give the same alignment. >> >> I'm not saying "there's not better way", but it's worth considering >> the positives of the existing patterns and seeing how we can preserve >> them. >> > I think it makes more sense to say "given that meeting time is > precious even when people don't have to physically travel to the > meetings, what's the most effective way to use that time to further > the goals of the group?" > > I remember when IETF meetings didn't use PowerPoint and video > projectors, and instead used film transparencies that could be written > on in real time. When PowerPoint was introduced, the meetings became > much less productive because far more time was dedicated to > presentation and correspondingly less for discussion. With film > transparencies, speakers were more likely to lead discussions and > refer to a slide only when necessary for illustration, and less likely > to simply read from their slides. Powerpoint made it too easy to > just type text to be displayed on the screen while that text was read > or summarized by the speaker. > > (the presentations are, however, useful, especially at letting a > participant quickly catch-up before, during, or after a meeting.) > > The other things that I recall making meetings less productive were > (in no particular order): > > - widespread adoption of IP-over-radio (first proprietary, later WiFi) > with the result that meeting rooms then had Internet access, which > meant that many people who were physically present in a meeting room > were not paying attention and thus distracting from the discussion in > some ways > > Fully-remote meetings seem present less of the distraction problem, > because the people who aren't paying attention are not as obvious as > they are in an in-person meeting. > > - Introduction of the microphone queue > I would like to learn when was the microphone queue introduced at IETF? I did see an early microphone queue in a video in the Russian parliament, year circa 1990. I do not see microphone linear queues in many other current (eh!, recent) f2f meetings that I attend(ed). I see, for example, two hostesses with microphones circulating in the amphitheatre and giving the mic to the people who raise hands to make questions. Alex > which again drastically reduced the time available for discussion due > to the overhead of "media access" (i.e. managing the microphone queue) > > The microphone queue was introduced to facilitate better remote > participation especially to allow time for remote speakers to get > access to the floor. In a fully-remote environment, maybe we don't > need that queue any more, at least most of the time. > > > >
- [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Bob Hinden
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Lixia Zhang
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Carlos M. Martinez
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Keith Moore
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Stephen Farrell
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Randy Bush
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Antoni Przygienda
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Black, David
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Alexandre PETRESCU
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Tony Li
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Daniel Migault
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Leonard Giuliano
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Melchior Aelmans
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Gyan Mishra
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Tim Chown
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Christian Huitema
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Bob Hinden
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Melinda Shore
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Andre Bondi
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Toerless Eckert
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Ben Campbell
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Carsten Bormann
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Toerless Eckert
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Tim Chown
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Melinda Shore
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Praneet Kaur
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Nabil Benamar
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 David R. Oran
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Ted Lemon
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Susan Hares
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Linda Dunbar
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Toerless Eckert
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Randy Bush
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Carsten Bormann
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Randy Bush
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 John Levine
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Bret Jordan
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Wiethuechter, Adam
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Randy Bush
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Black, David
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Bron Gondwana
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Keith Moore
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Benoit Claise
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Keith Moore
- [108attendees] IETF 108 is unique ! K Mohan Raidu
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Carsten Bormann
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Carsten Bormann
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Christian Hopps
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Antoni Przygienda
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Mirja Kuehlewind
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Alexandre PETRESCU
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Alexandre PETRESCU
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Christian Hopps
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Alexandre PETRESCU
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Carsten Bormann
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Alexandre PETRESCU
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Alexandre PETRESCU
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 John Scudder
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Christian Hopps
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Ted Lemon
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Mike Bishop
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Alexandre PETRESCU
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 John Scudder
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 John Scudder
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 tom.2.hill
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Ted Lemon
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Salz, Rich
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Salz, Rich
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Carsten Bormann
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Keith Moore
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Carsten Bormann
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Keith Moore
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Ted Lemon
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Keith Moore
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Ted Lemon
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Keith Moore
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Carsten Bormann
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Ted Lemon
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Keith Moore
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Carsten Bormann
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Ted Lemon
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Ted Lemon
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Toerless Eckert
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Toerless Eckert
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Toerless Eckert
- [108attendees] Please Fix your MUA: Re: IETF 108 … Mark Andrews
- Re: [108attendees] Please Fix your MUA: Re: IETF … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [108attendees] Please Fix your MUA: Re: IETF … K Mohan Raidu
- [108attendees] Agenda aware meetecho - Re: Succes… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [108attendees] Please Fix your MUA: Re: IETF … Ted Lemon