Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108
Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net> Tue, 04 August 2020 12:59 UTC
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From: Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>
To: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>, Bron Gondwana <brong@fastmailteam.com>
CC: "108attendees@ietf.org" <108attendees@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/108attendees/qy3KepMqxScbIOUQEibbJUYbN_0>
Subject: Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108
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I agree with Chris, presentations are useful in many respects. Timeslots need to be longer simply. In BIER we tend to bring as early presos the WG item/high impact/high quality things (this of course being subjective) but idea is of course for the slot being long enough e’one that is somehow relevant can present. The audience will vote with their feet. Also, mike discussions have high value albeit they need be tightly managed/clipped but this once-in-three-month- interactive slot on the mike between experts/newbies/people who wandered in opens aspects often that don’t come out on the mailing list or during preso * Tony From: 108attendees <108attendees-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org> Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2020 at 2:00 PM To: Bron Gondwana <brong@fastmailteam.com> Cc: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>, "108attendees@ietf.org" <108attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 [External Email. Be cautious of content] On Aug 3, 2020, at 10:17 PM, Bron Gondwana <brong@fastmailteam.com<mailto:brong@fastmailteam.com>> wrote: On Tue, Aug 4, 2020, at 03:27, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: FWIW, perhaps we should rethink the traditional meeting agenda. Today pretty much everyone does: * Present the slides I published 24 hours before the meeting * In the time left for my slot (little to none because agendas are usually full) entertain questions/discussion Instead, don’t present slides at all (still prepare/publish them – and have them available if needed for reference). Each “presenter” gets 10-15 minutes to simply take questions/have discussion – the interactive things that have added value when done “face-to-face”. This would use meeting time to do what cannot be done as easily “on the list”. There's an assumption in here that the presenting of the slides doesn't have any benefit, which I don't believe is true. As the presenter talks through the slides they are aligning the thoughts of everybody in the room (including themselves) and hence when we get to the conversation, everybody has the cache state loaded into their brain and the conversation can be productive. I don't think that "read the slides in advance and come with questions" will give the same alignment. I was trying to figure out why I thought this wouldn't work well, and I think you identified the most important aspect (cache loading and aligning thoughts). A couple addition things that presenting the slides during the meeting accomplishes, I think, 1) It allows for pulling in some experts (and their viewpoints) who might make themselves available fully during meeting slots, but aren't really so involved in the WG that they read every draft or would watch videos of the slide presentations beforehand. 2) For work that the WG ultimately will reject, it gives the authors the feeling that they were fully heard prior to that rejection. I know that this should be able to be done strictly on the list; however, human nature what it is, it sometimes helps when people actually see that other people listened to them. This might still work if there was lively back and forth during a Q&A session, but I suspect for this type of work many people wouldn't watch the premade videos b/c they suspected it wouldn't move forward, and so there'd be much less participation during the Q&A part. In LSR we've certainly had meetings where we didn't have enough time, but that was primarily after we merged IS-IS and OSPF and hadn't figured things out. Lately things have been OK I think, up until IETF 108. For IETF 108 we didn't have enough time to run things the way we normally do -- 100m was definitely not enough time for us. For the next virtual, if nothing changes with the format (single session 100m max), we will be have to more limit who gets agenda slots, perhaps with some "if there's time" slots tacked on the end in case discussion times are not fully used on earlier presentations. Thanks, Chris. I'm not saying "there's not better way", but it's worth considering the positives of the existing patterns and seeing how we can preserve them. Bron -- Bron Gondwana, CEO, Fastmail Pty Ltd brong@fastmailteam.com<mailto:brong@fastmailteam.com> -- 108attendees mailing list 108attendees@ietf.org<mailto:108attendees@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/108attendees Juniper Business Use Only
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- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Black, David
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- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Tony Li
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- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Melinda Shore
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- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Nabil Benamar
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 David R. Oran
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- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Joel M. Halpern
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- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Susan Hares
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- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Toerless Eckert
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Randy Bush
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Carsten Bormann
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Randy Bush
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 John Levine
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Bret Jordan
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Wiethuechter, Adam
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Randy Bush
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Black, David
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Bron Gondwana
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Keith Moore
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Benoit Claise
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Keith Moore
- [108attendees] IETF 108 is unique ! K Mohan Raidu
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Carsten Bormann
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Carsten Bormann
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Christian Hopps
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Antoni Przygienda
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Mirja Kuehlewind
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Alexandre PETRESCU
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Alexandre PETRESCU
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Christian Hopps
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Alexandre PETRESCU
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Carsten Bormann
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Alexandre PETRESCU
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Alexandre PETRESCU
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 John Scudder
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Christian Hopps
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Ted Lemon
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Mike Bishop
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Alexandre PETRESCU
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 John Scudder
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 John Scudder
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 tom.2.hill
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Ted Lemon
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Salz, Rich
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Salz, Rich
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Carsten Bormann
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Keith Moore
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Carsten Bormann
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Keith Moore
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Ted Lemon
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Keith Moore
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Ted Lemon
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Keith Moore
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Carsten Bormann
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Ted Lemon
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Keith Moore
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Carsten Bormann
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Ted Lemon
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Ted Lemon
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Toerless Eckert
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Toerless Eckert
- Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108 Toerless Eckert
- [108attendees] Please Fix your MUA: Re: IETF 108 … Mark Andrews
- Re: [108attendees] Please Fix your MUA: Re: IETF … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [108attendees] Please Fix your MUA: Re: IETF … K Mohan Raidu
- [108attendees] Agenda aware meetecho - Re: Succes… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [108attendees] Please Fix your MUA: Re: IETF … Ted Lemon