Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108

Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> Tue, 04 August 2020 15:01 UTC

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From: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
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Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 11:01:43 -0400
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Cc: Mike Bishop <mbishop@evequefou.be>, Bron Gondwana <brong@fastmailteam.com>, Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>, Antoni Przygienda <prz=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, Mirja Kuehlewind <mirja.kuehlewind@ericsson.com>, 108attendees@ietf.org
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To: John Scudder <jgs=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [108attendees] Successful IETF 108
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As far as I understand it, “only” is as opposed to “partly”. That is, as opposed to an in-person meeting with online participants. 

I’m a pretty strong advocate of learning how to get the benefit of in-person meetings online, both because it saves carbon and because it allows more participants. And yet I would not advocate never meeting in person. 

It might serve the community better if we could be less polarized about this. 


> On Aug 4, 2020, at 10:44, John Scudder <jgs=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
> 
> On Aug 4, 2020, at 10:34 AM, Mike Bishop <mbishop@evequefou.be> wrote:
>> 
>> The working group is not tasked with the elimination of in-person meetings.  And frankly, if you believe it is and you oppose the idea, the working group needs you speaking up against it.
> 
> For the reasons Chris mentioned earlier, this is an unrealistic expectation. There are various WGs I consider to be working on problems that don’t need solutions, or technologies that are dead ends. I generally think it’s antisocial and counterproductive to show up at their meetings and tell them so. It’s no skin off me if they choose to spend their time in a way I consider unwise, and besides, they might be right and I might be wrong (it happens with some frequency). As far as I’m concerned, the BoF phase is when naysaying has real value; after that, it’s a waste of your time and the WG’s, and it’s just rude.
> 
>> The “only” was added to side-step an acronym the IESG decided to avoid; it refers to a meeting with no in-person attendees, not to the elimination of in-person meetings for all time.
> 
> That was a poor naming decision then, and is having real-world consequences. As we know, “naming things” is one of the two hard problems of computer science (along with cache invalidation and off-by-one errors), so I don’t mean to criticize past decisions. But now that the bug has been demonstrated in the field, it’s time for a rename. Even if the name isn’t cute.
> 
> —John
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