Re: [111attendees] Agenda pains
Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Thu, 29 July 2021 18:39 UTC
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To: "Bare II, Keith" <Keith.Bare@netapp.com>, Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
Cc: "111attendees@ietf.org" <111attendees@ietf.org>
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From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [111attendees] Agenda pains
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Le 29/07/2021 à 18:24, Bare II, Keith a écrit : > From: 111attendees <111attendees-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of > Toerless Eckert Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2021 10:50 AM > >> No idea who and how the rules to decide which city is used to >> represent a particular TZ. I would guess Los Angeles was choosen >> because it is the largest city in CA in DST, whereas San Francisco >> is just the fourth largest. > > The "Continent/City" TZ names come from the IANA Time Zone Database. > > https://www.iana.org/time-zones Thanks for the clarification and the explanation. It makes think it might be advantageos to tell IANA that there are a few other cities called Los Angeles in the continent America. They are on different time zones. > The general rule is that a time zone is identified by the most > populous city within an area that has historically observed the same > local time. But there is the complication that the population of > cities changes over time, so the city in a TZ name might have been > most populous when the TZ name was chosen, but is no longer most > populous. > > So in in the case of the agenda, it's using "America/Los_Angeles", > the most populous city in the Western US, which uses the same local > time as San Francisco, where a physical meeting would have been > held. If so, then the option "America/Los Angeles" could be named "America/Los Angeles (the most populous LA of America, as of July 29, 2021); for SF". > > Likewise, Eastern US uses the "America/New_York" TZ name because New > York is most populous. Even though one might think it would make > more sense to use Washington, the capital city. > > TZ uses location names instead of a customary time zone name like > "Pacific Time" or "Central European Time" because historically a > location may have used different offsets from UTC, DST rules, or a > different customary time zone name. A good friend of mine who works > on the TZ database demonstrated this by showing how "Asia/Singapore" > will use "Japan Standard Time" during the period Singapore was > occupied by Japan during World War II. > > I will agree that this is tricky when you need to try and figure out > what time it is in some other city in a part of the world you are not > familiar with. For example, I have trouble remembering I need to use > "Asia/Kolkata" if I need to figure out what the local time is > Bangalore, India. I fully agree. Talking about places is different depending on the respective cultures. If I say Los Angeles to a resident of California, certainly s/he will understand LA. But to a resident of Argentina, it is not sure. But there are means to accommodate both in a still short name. Alex > > --Keith > > > On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 03:39:44PM +0200, Alexandre Petrescu wrote: >> >> >> Le 29/07/2021 à 15:23, Maisonneuve, Julien (Nokia - >> FR/Paris-Saclay) a écrit : >>> Thinking out loud : why not make the "local" agenda option the >>> default ? >> >> I support this suggestion, it makes sense: make the "Local" agenda >> option the default. Currently the default is >> "America/Los_Angeles". >> >> (I suspect it is the Los Angeles on the same timezone as the >> golden gate bridge illustrated on the first page, because golden >> gate is a symbol of San Francisco, and that is the City where the >> meeting should have taken place if no covid. But I suspect there >> are two San Franciscos in "America" and only one Los Angeles.) >> >> Alex >> >> Refreshing the agenda (to get the new WG agendas and >>> materials) would not require returning to the page's top to >>> resync to local. I would assume most people use their local set >>> timezone, so it could be positive for a significant majority. >>> Regards, Julien. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: 111attendees >>> <111attendees-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Maisonneuve, Julien >>> (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay) Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 7:54 PM To: >>> Jonathan Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com> Cc: 111attendees@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [111attendees] Agenda pains >>> >>> Good catch, that solves the 100+ entries menu. It still goes away >>> on refresh but it's usable. Julien. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Morton >>> <chromatix99@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 7:36 PM To: >>> Maisonneuve, Julien (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay) >>> <julien.maisonneuve@nokia.com> Cc: 111attendees@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [111attendees] Agenda pains >>> >>>> On 26 Jul, 2021, at 8:14 pm, Maisonneuve, Julien (Nokia - >>>> FR/Paris-Saclay) <julien.maisonneuve@nokia.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Just one comment on the meeting agenda : I really like the >>>> "timezone" adjustment feature, it is very helpful once you get >>>> past the 100+ timezone menu. However when you refresh the >>>> page (as you should to get updates of agendas, materials,...) >>>> you're back to the original timezone and must go again through >>>> the 100+ timezone menu each and every time. >>> >>>> This is a good feature, I'm sure there is a way to make it >>>> less painful. >>> >>> You could hit the "Local" link just about the drop menu - that >>> usually does the right thing. It takes the timezone setting from >>> your browser. >>> >>> - Jonathan Morton >>> >> >> -- 111attendees mailing list 111attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/111attendees > > -- --- tte@cs.fau.de > > -- 111attendees mailing list 111attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/111attendees >
- [111attendees] Agenda pains Maisonneuve, Julien (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay)
- Re: [111attendees] Agenda pains Jonathan Morton
- Re: [111attendees] Agenda pains Maisonneuve, Julien (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay)
- [111attendees] 答复: Agenda pains yangjinze
- Re: [111attendees] Agenda pains Maisonneuve, Julien (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay)
- Re: [111attendees] Agenda pains Carsten Bormann
- Re: [111attendees] Agenda pains Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [111attendees] Agenda pains Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [111attendees] Agenda pains Jonathan Morton
- Re: [111attendees] Agenda pains Yoav Nir
- Re: [111attendees] Agenda pains Toerless Eckert
- Re: [111attendees] Agenda pains Maisonneuve, Julien (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay)
- Re: [111attendees] Agenda pains Oscar Garcia
- Re: [111attendees] Agenda pains Youngkwon Lim
- Re: [111attendees] Agenda pains Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [111attendees] Agenda pains Yoav Nir
- Re: [111attendees] Agenda pains Dave Lawrence
- Re: [111attendees] Agenda pains Bare II, Keith
- Re: [111attendees] Agenda pains Maisonneuve, Julien (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay)
- Re: [111attendees] Agenda pains Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [111attendees] Agenda pains Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [111attendees] Agenda pains Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [111attendees] Agenda pains Carsten Bormann
- Re: [111attendees] Agenda pains Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [111attendees] Agenda pains Nigel Hickson
- Re: [111attendees] Agenda pains Alexandre Petrescu