Re: [111attendees] Positive observations and proposals for improvements to Meetecho (was: Re: Re: So, what are jabber scribes actually doing, these days?)
Nigel Hickson <nigel.hickson@dcms.gov.uk> Fri, 30 July 2021 19:38 UTC
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From: Nigel Hickson <nigel.hickson@dcms.gov.uk>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 20:37:55 +0100
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To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: Jay Daley <jay@ietf.org>, Bron Gondwana <brong@fastmailteam.com>, 111attendees@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [111attendees] Positive observations and proposals for improvements to Meetecho (was: Re: Re: So, what are jabber scribes actually doing, these days?)
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Spencer Thoughtful observations. I probably have not read enough of the "chat" to make a comprehensive input; but just three thoughts: 1. Very much appreciative of folks of Meetecho for supplying this platform, I liked it; 2. Agree with comments that would be useful to have speaker names; 3. I was joining (given late hours) on a smartphone (interface was fine) so wary of too much sophistication; as guess many in some parts only have option of joining by phone; best Nigel On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 at 18:39, Spencer Dawkins at IETF < spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com> wrote: > I should have changed the Subject a LONG time ago! But this thread has > morphed into helpful observations and suggestions, so, if I might add a > couple of things ... > > I agree that Meetecho has been improving (and just for fun, the Meetecho > guys were participants in the MEDIACTL session I was co-chairing in > Hiroshima at IETF 76 in November 2009, and they roped in a team member from > Italy during the discussion using whatever the toolset was back then, so > many of you have no idea how MUCH they've improved 😀). > > I see that we've already mentioned detaching the chat window, and usually > I remember that we can detach the chat by Tuesday of each IETF meeting week > at the latest, which is almost certainly a result of not having THAT much > experience with Meetecho during the four months between meetings. Now that > we can use Meetecho for interim meetings, that will help me remember more > clearly, so good there, too. > > The one thing I've noticed this week is how difficult it is to figure out > who is speaking if they aren't sending video, and there's a long list of > people in the queue. The suggestion to move the speakers above the queue > would improve that, and so would simply displaying the active speaker names > in the screen space where their video would have gone, if the person had > been sending video.One reason that matters, is that it's helpful for > everyone to get the speaker's name right in the minutes. That's not just > for new attendees, I'm starting to forget what people sound like, unless > I'm talking to them regularly, or they have a very distinctive speech > pattern, so I've definitely depending on seeing names when I'm taking > minutes. . > > The one thing I was thinking about, as I read through this thread, was > that we are kinda *not *talking about what the IETF thinks the target > audience for our conferencing tool is. > > - For probably the last couple of IETFs, I have a GREAT setup for > remote participation (my laptop screen, plus two 25-inch monitors). But I > do have tiled windows on all three screens. > - If we think people who can't throw a few hundred dollars at monitor > screens are part of our target audience, that's worth noting. > - If we think we're going to have hybrid meetings, in at least some > scenarios, it's going to be good to use Meetecho in the conference rooms > (especially if we need to be distancing, so more spread out, front to back > in the conference rooms). > - Even if we aren't doing hybrid meetings, I've participated in some > working group meetings from my hotel room, but I wasn't tryng to co-chair a > meeting, or even to present at a meeting. > - When Michael Richardson and I talked to the Cellar working group > participants about switching to Meetecho for our (monthy) interims, the > first question we got was, "is there an iOS/Adroid client?" I haven't > checked Meetecho on my phone in years, but I'd bet offhand that (1) it > would work, but (2) it might not be as easy to use as some other > conferencing systems, on those devices. Do people have experience with that? > > I'll let you folks continue to share these positive observations and > proposals. Make Good Choices, of course. > > Best, > > Spencer > > On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 6:15 PM Jay Daley <jay@ietf.org> wrote: > >> Thanks Bron. Personally I think that’s a great usability adjustment and >> will forward to the Meetecho team for them to consider. >> >> Jay >> >> > On 30/07/2021, at 10:58 AM, Bron Gondwana <brong@fastmailteam.com> >> wrote: >> > >> > On Fri, Jul 30, 2021, at 05:21, Jay Daley wrote: >> >> No we have absolutely not pushed Meetecho into being "just a >> contractor", they are a valued partner and we work very well together. If >> you have any doubts about that then ask them directly. >> >> >> >> It is disappointing that you have escalated a personal concern that >> you have with our services into such a strong criticism when that is >> entirely unsupported by any evidence. >> > >> > Jay, I agree with your sentiment here - this attitude to Meetecho is >> counterproductive. They've done great work for the last couple of IETFs >> and the experience is improving each time. I have particularly appreciated >> the embedded slide management, and I'm sure that will be even better next >> time too. >> > >> > Regarding the specific interface issues that remain, I do think there's >> a question of "where do we propose improvements in a way that will be >> noticed"? I've seen the suggestion made very many times that the "speaker" >> area (where the video shows) should have additional lines for each person >> sending anything, rather than that information being at the top of the >> participant list. This is much more like the experience with other chat >> systems, for example Zoom shows either a photo or a blank item for somebody >> who isn't currently sending video, but they're otherwise treated "the same" >> as a person sending video in terms of real-estate and where to look for >> their presence by default. >> > >> > Right now with meetecho, my eyes are normally at the video are when >> people are speaking, but if a non-video person is speaking I need to look >> across to the other side of the screen to see the audio indication. >> > >> > And as was also suggested in this thread, you can't scroll the >> participant list to find someone to chat to, because they jump to the top >> when they are sending, then back to alphabetical position. This is also a >> usability pain. Separating "the list of participants" (which wouldn't move >> about) and "the list of people sending something" with the video and audio >> indications being together in one place would be a significant >> improvement. And as an additional benefit, when you're looking at the chat >> window, you would still be able to see all the details of who is sending >> (including yourself - if you're sending then the indicator of your own >> audio should be the same as the indicator of everyone else's audio, rather >> than being in yet a third location up under your own name). >> > >> > <image.png> >> > So those two names would appear in the right hand side, and also still >> have their name in the participant list, and the video feeds would each >> have a "here's what's being sent". Chairs would always have a presence on >> the right, with whatever they were currently sending - and the >> "participants" tab would only have the list of participants, and not be a >> place you needed to go to see activity, so you could mostly keep the chat >> tab open. >> > >> > Bron. >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Bron Gondwana, CEO, Fastmail Pty Ltd >> > brong@fastmailteam.com >> > >> > >> > -- >> > 111attendees mailing list >> > 111attendees@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/111attendees >> >> -- >> Jay Daley >> IETF Executive Director >> jay@ietf.org >> >> -- >> 111attendees mailing list >> 111attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/111attendees >> > -- > 111attendees mailing list > 111attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/111attendees >
- [111attendees] Positive observations and proposal… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [111attendees] Positive observations and prop… Nigel Hickson
- Re: [111attendees] Positive observations and prop… Meetecho IETF support
- Re: [111attendees] Positive observations and prop… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [111attendees] [Tools-discuss] Positive obser… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [111attendees] [Tools-discuss] Positive obser… Michael Richardson
- Re: [111attendees] [Tools-discuss] Positive obser… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [111attendees] [Tools-discuss] Positive obser… Jonathan Morton
- Re: [111attendees] [Tools-discuss] Positive obser… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [111attendees] [Tools-discuss] Positive obser… Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [111attendees] [Tools-discuss] Positive obser… Michael Richardson
- Re: [111attendees] [Tools-discuss] Positive obser… gang Antgam
- Re: [111attendees] [Tools-discuss] Positive obser… gang Antgam
- Re: [111attendees] [Tools-discuss] Positive obser… gang Antgam
- Re: [111attendees] [Tools-discuss] Positive obser… gang Antgam
- Re: [111attendees] [Tools-discuss] Positive obser… gang Antgam
- Re: [111attendees] [Tools-discuss] Positive obser… gang Antgam
- Re: [111attendees] Positive observations and prop… gang Antgam
- Re: [111attendees] [Tools-discuss] Positive obser… Meetecho IETF support
- Re: [111attendees] [Tools-discuss] Positive obser… Meetecho IETF support
- Re: [111attendees] [Tools-discuss] Positive obser… Meetecho IETF support
- Re: [111attendees] [Tools-discuss] Positive obser… Spencer Dawkins at IETF