Re: [111attendees] timing

Nigel Hickson <nigel.hickson@dcms.gov.uk> Wed, 28 July 2021 22:32 UTC

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References: <20210728211403.C21B7254289F@ary.qy> <AA76737E-C2D4-4C00-8347-33D15611E1D2@tzi.org> <20210728212535.GP57091@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <f4ffb279cd1041538733e4cfe70a88cd@huawei.com> <20210728214639.GR57091@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <09e8068f93284fd3a00d5769f39cf2b2@huawei.com> <BBF96CC3-69D3-4A55-ACE6-B9A26CE9A184@isc.org> <YQHXZJ4phH6rubJd@spectre> <20210728222121.GU57091@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
In-Reply-To: <20210728222121.GU57091@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
From: Nigel Hickson <nigel.hickson@dcms.gov.uk>
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 23:32:11 +0100
Message-ID: <CAAm_rSKJxnp+LRin65CQi_0DG_Z0q2YRceDeq8uSws25qZFTpA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
Cc: Pedro Martinez-Julia <pedro@nict.go.jp>, Luigi IANNONE <luigi.iannone@huawei.com>, 111attendees@ietf.org, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>, Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org>
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Subject: Re: [111attendees] timing
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Indeed Schmoo good session.


On Wed, 28 Jul 2021, 23:21 Toerless Eckert, <tte@cs.fau.de> wrote:

> Btw: If you are writing something now and not multiplexing like me,
> you are missing SHMOO WG which is where this is all authoritatively
> discussed right now ;-)
>
> Cheers
>     Toerlss
>
> On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 07:17:08AM +0900, Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote:
> > Dear Mark and others,
> >
> > This is a good point for the good organization of global meetings. For
> > me, living in Japan, the current timing is good. It is very early on the
> > morning. In contrast, in Europe, some colleagues have complained (yes,
> > everybody has the right to complain) about having the meeting late at
> > night. However, it is not "in the middle of the night" for neither of
> > us, which is perfect for such a global event.
> >
> > Regarding the time. I had many mistakes by the date being specified in
> > some TZ and then it being translated by nonsense application, browser,
> > or whatever, so I missed the correct time. All times must be in UTC and
> > they must be explicitly told (adding UTC to the time). In addition, as
> > Mark points, the day used as label is another problem, although using
> > the relative day is still a problem. Days must be derived from the UTC
> > time, so a "date and time" must be used and organizers must be aware of
> > both the UTC *time* and *date* of a meeting. Applications can understand
> > this and replace it by the correct name of the day and/or a label such
> > as proposed by Mark.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Pedro
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 08:07:03AM +1000, Mark Andrews wrote:
> > > One hard part is actually having the days listed as Monday, Tuesday,
> Wednesday instead of Day 1, Day 2, Day 3.  It is Thursday here but we are
> on Wednesday’s program. Off by 24 hours errors are easy to make.  Even
> setting the calendar to the local time zone doesn’t change the titles in
> the schedule.  You have to look for the (+1) on the times.
> > >
> > > > On 29 Jul 2021, at 07:50, Luigi IANNONE <luigi.iannone@huawei.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > You are right
> > > >
> > > >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_Portugal#:~:text=Daylight%20saving%20time%20(locally%20known,use%20UTC%2B00%3A00
> .
> > > >
> > > > Says Azores' UTC+00:00 is actually Azores' DST.... useless...
> > > >
> > > > Ciao
> > > >
> > > > L.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: Toerless Eckert [mailto:tte@cs.fau.de]
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2021 23:47
> > > >> To: Luigi IANNONE <luigi.iannone@huawei.com>
> > > >> Cc: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>rg>; 111attendees@ietf.org
> > > >> Subject: Re: [111attendees] timing
> > > >>
> > > >> Right. Thats i think what i did some time ago, but when i look up
> Azores, it is
> > > >> part of portugal and the wiki page does not explain whether or not
> it has DST.
> > > >>
> > > >> Do you want to bet whether or not that webex Azores TZ comes with or
> > > >> without DST ? If it comes with DST its useless.
> > > >>
> > > >> Cheers
> > > >>    toerless
> > > >>
> > > >> On Wed, Jul 28, 2021 at 09:29:20PM +0000, Luigi IANNONE wrote:
> > > >>> You can select the "UTC+00:00 Azores" time zone (kind of a
> workaround
> > > >>> though..)
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Ciao
> > > >>>
> > > >>> L.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> -----Original Message-----
> > > >>>> From: 111attendees [mailto:111attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On
> Behalf
> > > >>>> Of Toerless Eckert
> > > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2021 23:26
> > > >>>> To: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
> > > >>>> Cc: 111attendees@ietf.org
> > > >>>> Subject: Re: [111attendees] timing
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Does Webex by now allow you to enter UTC ?
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I don't think it does explicitly, and if it stil doesn't that is
> > > >>>> still a very annoying issue for recurring meetings.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> For example for our weekly NomCom meetings i can already see how
> > > >>>> folks will be confused when DST ends differently in different
> parts
> > > >>>> of the planet and you have to figure out which the original TZ was
> > > >>>> in which the recurring meeting was done during those weeks.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Cheers
> > > >>>>    Toerless
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> On Wed, Jul 28, 2021 at 11:19:00PM +0200, Carsten Bormann wrote:
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Using UTC is a big source of errors: ...
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> I have to completely disagree.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> +1
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> NOT using UTC is a big source of errors. (FTFY)
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> But this is totally unrelated to the issue at hand.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Grüße, Carsten
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> --
> > > >>>>> 111attendees mailing list
> > > >>>>> 111attendees@ietf.org
> > > >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/111attendees
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> --
> > > >>>> ---
> > > >>>> tte@cs.fau.de
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> --
> > > >>>> 111attendees mailing list
> > > >>>> 111attendees@ietf.org
> > > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/111attendees
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> ---
> > > >> tte@cs.fau.de
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > 111attendees mailing list
> > > > 111attendees@ietf.org
> > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/111attendees
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mark Andrews, ISC
> > > 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
> > > PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742              INTERNET: marka@isc.org
> > >
> > > --
> > > 111attendees mailing list
> > > 111attendees@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/111attendees
> >
> > --
> > Pedro Martinez-Julia
> > Network Architecture Laboratory, Network Research Institute
> > National Institute of Information and Communications Technology (NICT)
> > 4-2-1, Nukui-Kitamachi, Koganei, Tokyo 184-8795, Japan
> > Email: pedro@nict.go.jp
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> > *** Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem ***
>
> --
> ---
> tte@cs.fau.de
>
> --
> 111attendees mailing list
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>