Re: [111attendees] timing

Diego Dujovne <> Thu, 29 July 2021 14:46 UTC

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From: Diego Dujovne <>
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2021 11:46:14 -0300
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To: Toerless Eckert <>
Cc: Alexandre Petrescu <>,
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Subject: Re: [111attendees] timing
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What I generally do is to ask Google: what time is UTC?

[image: image.png]
(no interest in good writing when Google understands anyway)
Then I calculate the difference myself.


On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 11:38 AM Toerless Eckert <> wrote:

> AFAIK, it is quite the opposite of what you say, see also:
> UTC does minimize the amount of errors and conversion steps you need
> to do when collaborating internationally. If your reference time is
> some TZ, you need to understand not only your own local TZ offset and
> DST rules, but also that of the reference TZ offset and DST rules.
> And you effectively translate from one to the other going through UTC.
> When UTC is your reference you only need to understand your local TZ
> offset and DST rules.
> As to whether or not UTC exists, thats a matter of "exists" wrt to
> TZ. I guess your "exist" is that only those TZ exist that are adopted
> by some territorial entity. And while Ghana and Iceland adopt UTC+0, no
> DST,
> i would agree that recommending some countries whose TZ rules nobody
> knows is but a hack for the normal user.
> Nevertheless, adoption of TZ by territorial governments is but one
> type of adoption/existance. UTC is the universal standard in aviation and
> militaries as
> well as i think a lot ofthernationally coordinated organizations are
> adopting UTC directly without a need to declare themselves to be
> in Ghana or Iceland. The same is logical for IETF.
> Of course, we may not need to call it UTC. NATO for example
> calls UTC ZULU time. If we wanted to confuse the heck out of
> participants to make a good joke & pun (which is always a good
> reason to confuse people IMHO), we could call it iTime (Internet Time,
> IETF time).
> Cheers
>     Toerless
> On Wed, Jul 28, 2021 at 06:48:59PM +0200, Alexandre Petrescu wrote:
> > There is a difference in opposing noon start times and opposing UTC
> > references.  I oppose the latter.
> >
> > Using UTC is a big source of errors: artificial two-step conversion and
> > and an ambiguity of a third step which is the daylight savings (UTC does
> > not respect daylight savings, and UTC is the same as London times some
> > times).
> >
> > Time should be talked about in terms of geography (cities, oceans, what
> > have you) but not in absolute terms like 'Unviersal'.  There is no
> > Universal time however one might turn it.
> >
> > UTC is an anchor to go to when one does not have where to go to.  But it
> > does not really exist.
> >
> > Alex
> --
> 111attendees mailing list