Re: [111attendees] timing

Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Thu, 29 July 2021 15:12 UTC

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To: Diego Dujovne <diego.dujovne@gmail.com>, Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
Cc: 111attendees@ietf.org
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From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [111attendees] timing
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Le 29/07/2021 à 16:46, Diego Dujovne a écrit :
> What I generally do is to ask Google: what time is UTC?
> 
> image.png
> (no interest in good writing when Google understands anyway)
> Then I calculate the difference myself.

It's a two-step process: ask Google, then calculate difference.

Ideally there should be just one step.

Alex

> Regards,
> 
>                          Diego
> 
> On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 11:38 AM Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de 
> <mailto:tte@cs.fau.de>> wrote:
> 
>     AFAIK, it is quite the opposite of what you say, see also:
>     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time
>     <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time>
> 
>     UTC does minimize the amount of errors and conversion steps you need
>     to do when collaborating internationally. If your reference time is
>     some TZ, you need to understand not only your own local TZ offset and
>     DST rules, but also that of the reference TZ offset and DST rules.
>     And you effectively translate from one to the other going through UTC.
>     When UTC is your reference you only need to understand your local TZ
>     offset and DST rules.
> 
>     As to whether or not UTC exists, thats a matter of "exists" wrt to
>     TZ. I guess your "exist" is that only those TZ exist that are adopted
>     by some territorial entity. And while Ghana and Iceland adopt UTC+0,
>     no DST,
>     i would agree that recommending some countries whose TZ rules nobody
>     knows is but a hack for the normal user.
> 
>     Nevertheless, adoption of TZ by territorial governments is but one
>     type of adoption/existance. UTC is the universal standard in
>     aviation and militaries as
>     well as i think a lot ofthernationally coordinated organizations are
>     adopting UTC directly without a need to declare themselves to be
>     in Ghana or Iceland. The same is logical for IETF.
> 
>     Of course, we may not need to call it UTC. NATO for example
>     calls UTC ZULU time. If we wanted to confuse the heck out of
>     participants to make a good joke & pun (which is always a good
>     reason to confuse people IMHO), we could call it iTime (Internet
>     Time, IETF time).
> 
>     Cheers
>          Toerless
> 
>     On Wed, Jul 28, 2021 at 06:48:59PM +0200, Alexandre Petrescu wrote:
>      > There is a difference in opposing noon start times and opposing UTC
>      > references.  I oppose the latter.
>      >
>      > Using UTC is a big source of errors: artificial two-step
>     conversion and
>      > and an ambiguity of a third step which is the daylight savings
>     (UTC does
>      > not respect daylight savings, and UTC is the same as London times
>     some
>      > times).
>      >
>      > Time should be talked about in terms of geography (cities,
>     oceans, what
>      > have you) but not in absolute terms like 'Unviersal'.  There is no
>      > Universal time however one might turn it.
>      >
>      > UTC is an anchor to go to when one does not have where to go to. 
>     But it
>      > does not really exist.
>      >
>      > Alex
> 
>     -- 
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