Re: [111attendees] timing
Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Thu, 29 July 2021 15:12 UTC
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To: Diego Dujovne <diego.dujovne@gmail.com>, Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
Cc: 111attendees@ietf.org
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From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
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Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2021 17:12:13 +0200
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Subject: Re: [111attendees] timing
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Le 29/07/2021 à 16:46, Diego Dujovne a écrit : > What I generally do is to ask Google: what time is UTC? > > image.png > (no interest in good writing when Google understands anyway) > Then I calculate the difference myself. It's a two-step process: ask Google, then calculate difference. Ideally there should be just one step. Alex > Regards, > > Diego > > On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 11:38 AM Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de > <mailto:tte@cs.fau.de>> wrote: > > AFAIK, it is quite the opposite of what you say, see also: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time> > > UTC does minimize the amount of errors and conversion steps you need > to do when collaborating internationally. If your reference time is > some TZ, you need to understand not only your own local TZ offset and > DST rules, but also that of the reference TZ offset and DST rules. > And you effectively translate from one to the other going through UTC. > When UTC is your reference you only need to understand your local TZ > offset and DST rules. > > As to whether or not UTC exists, thats a matter of "exists" wrt to > TZ. I guess your "exist" is that only those TZ exist that are adopted > by some territorial entity. And while Ghana and Iceland adopt UTC+0, > no DST, > i would agree that recommending some countries whose TZ rules nobody > knows is but a hack for the normal user. > > Nevertheless, adoption of TZ by territorial governments is but one > type of adoption/existance. UTC is the universal standard in > aviation and militaries as > well as i think a lot ofthernationally coordinated organizations are > adopting UTC directly without a need to declare themselves to be > in Ghana or Iceland. The same is logical for IETF. > > Of course, we may not need to call it UTC. NATO for example > calls UTC ZULU time. If we wanted to confuse the heck out of > participants to make a good joke & pun (which is always a good > reason to confuse people IMHO), we could call it iTime (Internet > Time, IETF time). > > Cheers > Toerless > > On Wed, Jul 28, 2021 at 06:48:59PM +0200, Alexandre Petrescu wrote: > > There is a difference in opposing noon start times and opposing UTC > > references. I oppose the latter. > > > > Using UTC is a big source of errors: artificial two-step > conversion and > > and an ambiguity of a third step which is the daylight savings > (UTC does > > not respect daylight savings, and UTC is the same as London times > some > > times). > > > > Time should be talked about in terms of geography (cities, > oceans, what > > have you) but not in absolute terms like 'Unviersal'. There is no > > Universal time however one might turn it. > > > > UTC is an anchor to go to when one does not have where to go to. > But it > > does not really exist. > > > > Alex > > -- > 111attendees mailing list > 111attendees@ietf.org <mailto:111attendees@ietf.org> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/111attendees > <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/111attendees> >
- [111attendees] timing Randy Bush
- Re: [111attendees] timing Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [111attendees] timing Carsten Bormann
- Re: [111attendees] timing Randy Bush
- Re: [111attendees] timing Toerless Eckert
- Re: [111attendees] timing Mirja Kuehlewind
- Re: [111attendees] timing Bob Hinden
- Re: [111attendees] timing Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [111attendees] timing Toerless Eckert
- Re: [111attendees] timing John Levine
- Re: [111attendees] timing Carsten Bormann
- Re: [111attendees] timing Chukwuka Odele
- Re: [111attendees] timing Luigi IANNONE
- Re: [111attendees] timing Chukwuka Odele
- Re: [111attendees] timing Carlos M. Martinez
- Re: [111attendees] timing Chukwuka Odele
- Re: [111attendees] timing Toerless Eckert
- Re: [111attendees] timing Luigi IANNONE
- Re: [111attendees] timing Salz, Rich
- Re: [111attendees] timing Mark Andrews
- Re: [111attendees] timing Pedro Martinez-Julia
- Re: [111attendees] timing Toerless Eckert
- Re: [111attendees] timing Pedro Martinez-Julia
- Re: [111attendees] timing Toerless Eckert
- Re: [111attendees] timing Nigel Hickson
- Re: [111attendees] timing Pedro Martinez-Julia
- Re: [111attendees] timing Toerless Eckert
- Re: [111attendees] timing Pedro Martinez-Julia
- Re: [111attendees] timing Carsten Bormann
- Re: [111attendees] timing Carlos Marcelo Martinez Cagnazzo
- Re: [111attendees] timing Toerless Eckert
- Re: [111attendees] timing Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [111attendees] timing Bron Gondwana
- Re: [111attendees] timing Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [111attendees] timing Göran Selander
- Re: [111attendees] timing Carsten Bormann
- Re: [111attendees] timing Carsten Bormann
- Re: [111attendees] timing Tero Kivinen
- Re: [111attendees] timing Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [111attendees] timing Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [111attendees] timing Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [111attendees] timing Toerless Eckert
- Re: [111attendees] timing Diego Dujovne
- Re: [111attendees] timing Adnan Rashid
- Re: [111attendees] timing Boris Khasanov
- Re: [111attendees] timing Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [111attendees] timing Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [111attendees] timing Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [111attendees] timing Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [111attendees] timing Roman Shpount
- Re: [111attendees] timing Youngkwon Lim
- Re: [111attendees] timing Stewart Bryant
- Re: [111attendees] timing John R. Levine
- Re: [111attendees] timing Lars Eggert
- Re: [111attendees] timing Carsten Bormann
- Re: [111attendees] timing Carsten Bormann
- Re: [111attendees] timing Christian Amsüss
- Re: [111attendees] timing Carsten Bormann
- Re: [111attendees] timing Toerless Eckert
- Re: [111attendees] timing Larry Masinter
- Re: [111attendees] timing Carsten Bormann