Re: [113attendees] remote-inclusiveness (was: Re: hybrid meetings: the worst of both worlds)

[Michael Richardson <[e-mail]>]

Toerless Eckert <[e-mail]> wrote:
    > Sitting in a side-meeting room in the IETF and NOT having a
    > remote participation option for example strikes me as particularily
    > objectionable.
    
    > Sitting in a bar and trying to get actual technical work
    > done, but then not understanding anyone due to background noise equally
    > so.

I think that there is space for a wide set of different options.
I have objected to providing space for side-meetings for many years now.
They become some kind of alternate track and frankly many people are over
scheduled too much already during IETF plenary week.

I agree with you that we have made great strides in supporting online
meetings, even prior to pandemic.

That's why I question the value of side-meetings w/remote participation.
Either:
  1) just schedule a virtual interim meeting or design-team meeting
     if it's associated with a WG already.
  2) or it's really a BOF in disguise.
  3) or it's just a group of IETF people preparing for some BOF.

#3 does not need to happen during IETF plenary week.
Let's just do #1 or #3 at a different time, and all be "remote"

The only *value* that doing it doing IETF plenary week is that is preferences
the time zone in which the meeting is.  When the meeting is in Europe or
America, then that's not really helping spread the pain.  So, it's only
really when the IETF plenary is in Asia does having it during the IETF
plenary week make it less painful for asian participants to join.

    > Yes, spending more time by doing local and then remote meetings would
    > be nice, but i already know that only a minority of people that where
    > able to meet locally would make themselves available remotely to the
    > same degree.

I don't really understand this.

I mean, I understand what you are saying, and I agree that there are people
that one is able to sometimes pin down during IETF plenary week that it can
be hard to pin down outside of that week... but I don't understand why those
people are so important to have at the meeting, given that they aren't
available.

I had two design-team meetings (both involving ADs) last week.

They were mostly arranged last minute, and we did suck in at least one remote
person via a laptop on a table and webex/zoom/..   yes, they were meetings of
opportunity, in order to resolve some issues.  We probably could have
eventually gotten through things via email, or a specific meeting time, but
we didn't.

-- 
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]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works        | network architect  [ 
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