Re: [113attendees] hybrid meetings: the worst of both worlds

[Toerless Eckert <[e-mail]>]

Tero,

I think it must have been something like 10 years of online meeting while working
inside a company that was actually selling the meeting tool, before every required
participant and the tool itself was 97% able to avoid getting stuck with
wasting 10 minutes in the beginning of each meeting with meeting logistics.

Nothing comes for free. We all had to learn how to read and write, and then
how to do it appropriately for email, mailing lists, across various type
of computers and so on.

Yes: If someone wants to feel qualified to step in and say "hey, i can help
with that remote experience", then he/she should be able to

a) have some tool understood - webex/zoom/gather or one out of 100 more RTCweb
   conference tools (whereby seems nice too).
b) Know how to connect a projector to an HDMI output of his notebook,
   and maybe have the cable.
c) Have something like a blueooth speaker for a room and give instructions
   to local participants how to use it.
d) Have remote participants that can be persuaded to wear headsets when they
   cause echo (i failed with my colleague this time... twice).

I am sure qhite a few IETF participants are happy to help with this type of
setup issues.

Its really NOT rocket science. By now its a very simple craft everyone can learn.
In comparison, learning english was harder for me, and we expect every IETF participant
to do just that (imagine how great IETF would be if like in ITU we would provide
translation services).

Cheers
    Toerless
   

On Mon, Mar 28, 2022 at 12:57:22PM +0300, Tero Kivinen wrote:
> Toerless Eckert writes:
> > Hmm..
> > 
> > On Fri, Mar 25, 2022 at 06:03:22PM +0000, Mike Bishop wrote:
> > > Indeed. The number of passionate disagreements that can be solved
> > > by "The four people who care are going to go have lunch, then
> > > present a consensus position at tomorrow's session" cannot be
> > > understated. In virtual land, the arguments stretch on for weeks
> > > or months.
> > 
> > If exactly and only the very same four people would have had lunch
> > together via gather.town in a privat corner, how much
> > different/worse would the result have been ?
> 
> The problem is that is it is almost impossible to get it working in
> gather or other online tool. Taking your four person exmple. Firstly
> one of the four people would not be in the meeting at all, as it
> happened to be 3am for him, and he did not consider the meeting
> important enough to wake just for that. For onsite meeting it would be
> normal working hours thus he would wonder in to meeting that is not
> really important to him, but which he knows lot about, meaning his
> input to the discussion would be very important.
> 
> Secondly one of those four people would have company meeting right
> after the session, thus they would not be able to attend this kind of
> lunch meeting at that short notice. Third person would most likely
> want to fix some lunch at home during the break, and could not
> concentrate on the lunch meeting while actually preparing food
> (compared to the case where restaurant staff makes food for you). So
> only one of the four people would really end up in gather, and then he
> would wonder what was there that was supposed to be discussed here...
> 
> > IMHO, if those people knew each other from in before in person, the
> > virtual meeting would come quite close, maybe even better if some
> > more tooling at home/gather would have helped (restaurant napkins
> > have their limits).
> 
> When working out issues, I think any webex/zoom/jitsi/meetecho meeting
> is not as good as having people in the same meeting room and actually
> concentrating on the meeting. With all these tooling people are very
> often not fully concentrating themselves to the meeting, as it is so
> easy to do other things at the same time and other people in the
> meting does not usually notice it. I myself do it all the time during
> virtual meetings. On the other hand I sometimes do it also during
> onsite meetings, but then that is usually much more noticeable to
> others in the meeting, and they will wake me up if there is something
> important to discuss...
> 
> During this IETF there were several cases where I was able to solve an
> issue, just by seeing the right person during the break and talking to
> him. If I would have needed to go and hunt him through gather, or
> arrange special zoom etc meetign with him that would have never
> happened, as I only really realized that he is correct person to ask
> when I actually saw him on break.
> -- 
> [e-mail]

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