Re: [114attendees] [**EXTERNAL**] Re: [114all] Consultation on COVID management for IETF 115 London
"Shah, Himanshu" <hshah@ciena.com> Sat, 13 August 2022 10:35 UTC
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From: "Shah, Himanshu" <hshah@ciena.com>
To: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>, Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
CC: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>, Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>, "114attendees@ietf.org" <114attendees@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [**EXTERNAL**] Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID management for IETF 115 London
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Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2022 10:00:11 +0000
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Subject: Re: [114attendees] [**EXTERNAL**] Re: [114all] Consultation on COVID management for IETF 115 London
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I support in-person meetings. IETF has good guidelines to participate safely. Hallway discussions, meeting newer participants, refreshing old contacts (“networking”) and especially dedicated timeout from daily work schedules for IETF activities – there is no substitute. Virtual meetings works well for some while not so for others. Thanks, Himanshu From: 114attendees <114attendees-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> Date: Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 3:28 AM To: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com> Cc: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>, Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>, 114attendees@ietf.org <114attendees@ietf.org> Subject: [**EXTERNAL**] Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID management for IETF 115 London Phil: I 100% support to put more focus on comprehension. I also agree that remote meetings should allow to spend more time on comprehension. But so far they are not necessarily structured to achieve that goal, because everything is planned to have minimum time impact on everybody's schedule, so no supposed "idle" time where more comprehension would be possible. In addition, i have an even more fundamental issue with many technologies in RFCs being published without enough comprehension written into them. Especially in RTG. I often have a harder time catching up there with new technologies than in many technologies in other areas where i had to browse RFCs. There is often good comprehension material in presentations, especially well built pictures that would be a great basis for more comprehension sections in RFC (with appropriate text added) - if it was just permitted to include color bitmap rendering of such pictures into RFCs instead of redoing all such work with non-existing tool-chains to fit the strange XMLv3 standards we now have. Cheers Toerles On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 11:16:08PM -0400, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: > On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 6:42 PM Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote: > > > > Or maybe… the IETF should learn from its mistakes, realize that > > > putting people’s health at risk is simply not worth it, and revert to > > > a purely virtual meeting. > > > > i have sympathy for this, and certainly will not attend in person. but, > > as long as remote participation is not disadvantaged, if a bunch of folk > > want to risk running off the earth's edge, i have better things to do > > than trying to stop them. > > > > as long as remote participation is not disadvantaged: > > > > I am also sympathetic. But there are some things that simply don't work the > same remotely. Persuading people to take a look at new work simply isn't > the same remotely. > > Another problem is that the WG meetings are ridiculously short meaning that > presentations are compressed, sometimes to the point of > incomprehensibility. The hallway conversations are not just about work, > they are about comprehension. Having the compressed version in the WG is > not so bad if the people who are confused can go query the speaker > afterwards. If they were remote, things can go badly... > > > Now to be fair, my proposed solution to this is a remote interim. But all > remote is a different thing to a hybrid. > > I still think the solution should be to cut the number of in person > meetings per year to one and do virtual interims. > -- > 114attendees mailing list > 114attendees@ietf.org > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/114attendees__;!!OSsGDw!IAgXftoXm5XgGYf7iiAboXGQCjAK1YkYN4pvhP1WbCObxjvpmcqPEmWZJRqMWkDRz7OZ_9Bk$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/114attendees__;!!OSsGDw!IAgXftoXm5XgGYf7iiAboXGQCjAK1YkYN4pvhP1WbCObxjvpmcqPEmWZJRqMWkDRz7OZ_9Bk$> [ietf[.]org] -- --- tte@cs.fau.de -- 114attendees mailing list 114attendees@ietf.org https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/114attendees__;!!OSsGDw!IAgXftoXm5XgGYf7iiAboXGQCjAK1YkYN4pvhP1WbCObxjvpmcqPEmWZJRqMWkDRz7OZ_9Bk$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/114attendees__;!!OSsGDw!IAgXftoXm5XgGYf7iiAboXGQCjAK1YkYN4pvhP1WbCObxjvpmcqPEmWZJRqMWkDRz7OZ_9Bk$> [ietf[.]org]
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… ProSapien Sam Smith
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Personal Sam Smith
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Ross Finlayson
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Yaron Sheffer
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Eric Orth
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Dean Bogdanovic
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Sorin Faibish
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Tony Li
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Mike Bishop
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Randy Bush
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Smith, Andy
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Christian Huitema
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Samuel Weiler
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Wes Hardaker
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Jordi Palet Martínez
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [114attendees] [**EXTERNAL**] Re: [114all] Co… Shah, Himanshu
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… John Levine
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Jari Arkko
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Margaret Cullen
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Joel Halpern
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Ted Lemon
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Joel Halpern
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Jordi Palet Martínez
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… John Levine
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Marco Davids (SIDN)
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Ted Lemon
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Marco Davids
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Salz, Rich
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Personal Sam Smith
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Jeff Haas
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Personal Sam Smith
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Jeff Haas
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Ted Lemon
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Personal Sam Smith
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Jeff Haas
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Personal Sam Smith