Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID management for IETF 115 London
Joel Halpern <jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com> Mon, 15 August 2022 22:44 UTC
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To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Cc: "114attendees@ietf.org" <114attendees@ietf.org>, Margaret Cullen <mrcullen42@gmail.com>
References: <4B348C11-79CE-4E7E-9DFD-B5CE79224767@ietf.org> <2F1594AF-4729-4908-918E-CD2151639E23@samuelsmith.org> <9c06d39e-0a03-916f-89e3-eff9ed2231bf@petit-huguenin.org> <CF6F11B2-6E3D-45FD-B520-29FE7DA52658@live555.com> <df828417-9229-4f67-93bf-9de9202e1950@petit-huguenin.org> <LO0P123MB660168369A86618248E627B5A9679@LO0P123MB6601.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> <CAMOjQcFkuBWOGPCwP=UFbodA15R79COvncHw-nm1YmFFoL1N+w@mail.gmail.com> <6aa68882-60bb-4a7c-ad84-51c58f7bd78a@evequefou.be> <B53FD62C-6AFD-4048-823E-F723A14C207B@gmail.com> <9e5b5853-2f5b-e5ab-19da-562f8a099b7b@joelhalpern.com> <CAPt1N1kiuq6PnQUkKbqekdhoJ-s8EXiUAOyYKt3ekZ94vNokyg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Joel Halpern <jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>
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Subject: Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID management for IETF 115 London
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I agree (and hope I made that clear in an earlier email) that the quesiton of how the policy affects the likelihood / willingness of people to attend is the key quesiton. While not central, I thought Margaret's question might help some people, so I took a crack at answering it. Yours, Joel On 8/15/2022 6:40 PM, Ted Lemon wrote: > It’s also worth noting that when I am at home, I have a great deal of > control over the risks I take. When I’m at IETF, I’m at the mercy of > the IETF’s mitigation strategy. For some, that strategy will seem like > more than what they do at home. For others, perhaps less. > > A better question might be, how many people who would attend the > meeting were the policy different, as compared to how many attend it > with the current policy. > > If we think in person attendance is beneficial, this is really the > only question that matters. If we don’t think it’s important, we > should go back to online-only. > > On Mon, Aug 15, 2022 at 18:35 Joel Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote: > > That comparison seems a reasonable question. > > I am not a statistician or an epidemiologist, so I may have gotten > the comparatives wrong. > > Looking at the data for Pennsylvania as reported by the New York > Times, they report for a week 25 cases per 100,000 people. The > highest County reports 60 cases per 100,000. Rounding our rate to > 2.5 percent, and our attendance to 500 just to keep things simple, > our experience would be a rate of 500 cases per 100,000 people per > week. So yes, attending the IETF meeting does seem to be related > to a significant increase in risk even with the rules we had in place. > > If I have misunderstood the data, I hope someone who knows more > will correct me. > > Yours, > > Joel > > On 8/15/2022 3:39 PM, Margaret Cullen wrote: >> >> Do we have any idea how the percentage of IETF attendees infected >> with COVID during the IETF week compares to the percentage who >> would have been infected if they stayed home? >> >> Margaret >> >> >>> On Aug 12, 2022, at 6:07 PM, Mike Bishop <mbishop@evequefou.be> >>> wrote: >>> >>> And this, in my opinion, is the primary goal. It is a useful >>> secondary goal to minimize excess exposure to CoVID among >>> participants relative to the exposure we would have had without >>> an IETF meeting. But the primary goal of the IETF's precautions >>> is to ensure enough attendees are willing to take the risk of >>> coming to ensure a successful meeting. >>> >>> The recommendations as stated strike an excellent balance >>> between comforting the nervous, reducing transmission where >>> possible, and minimizing burden on attendees. >>> >>> Sent from Nine <http://www.9folders.com/> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> *From:* Eric Orth <ericorth=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> >>> *Sent:* Friday, August 12, 2022 2:25 PM >>> *To:* 114attendees@ietf.org >>> *Subject:* Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID >>> management for IETF 115 London >>> >>> Scientifically beneficial or not (I'm not going to get into that >>> debate), the proposals Jay has outlined would go a long way >>> towards making me feel comfortable attending an international >>> conference, so I support those proposals. >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 5:03 PM Yaron Sheffer >>> <yaronf.ietf@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> +1 to Marc. >>> >>> *From: *114attendees <114attendees-bounces@ietf.org> on >>> behalf of Marc Petit-Huguenin <marc@petit-huguenin.org> >>> *Date: *Saturday, 13 August 2022 at 0:00 >>> *To: *Ross Finlayson <finlayson@live555.com>, >>> 114attendees@ietf.org <114attendees@ietf.org> >>> *Subject: *Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID >>> management for IETF 115 London >>> >>> We should do better than that. Except for the couple of >>> first days of IETF 114, the policy was stronger than what >>> was recommended locally and that's the reason why I will go >>> to London. FTR I support everything Jay proposed. >>> >>> On 8/12/22 13:34, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>> > I think that the IETF (and IETFers) should avoid straying >>> into areas outside their areas of expertise, and just follow >>> whatever policy is recommended by the locality where each >>> meeting is held. >>> > >>> > Ross. >>> > >>> >>> -- >>> Marc Petit-Huguenin >>> Email: marc@petit-huguenin.org >>> Blog: https://marc.petit-huguenin.org >>> Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petithug >>> >>> -- >>> 114attendees mailing list >>> 114attendees@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/114attendees >>> >>> -- >>> 114attendees mailing list >>> 114attendees@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/114attendees >> >> > -- > 114attendees mailing list > 114attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/114attendees >
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… ProSapien Sam Smith
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Personal Sam Smith
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Ross Finlayson
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Yaron Sheffer
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Eric Orth
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Dean Bogdanovic
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Sorin Faibish
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Tony Li
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Mike Bishop
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Randy Bush
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Smith, Andy
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Christian Huitema
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Samuel Weiler
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Wes Hardaker
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Jordi Palet Martínez
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [114attendees] [**EXTERNAL**] Re: [114all] Co… Shah, Himanshu
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… John Levine
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Jari Arkko
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Margaret Cullen
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Joel Halpern
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Ted Lemon
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Joel Halpern
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Jordi Palet Martínez
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… John Levine
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Marco Davids (SIDN)
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Ted Lemon
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Marco Davids
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Salz, Rich
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Personal Sam Smith
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Jeff Haas
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Personal Sam Smith
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Jeff Haas
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Ted Lemon
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Personal Sam Smith
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Jeff Haas
- Re: [114attendees] [114all] Consultation on COVID… Personal Sam Smith