Return-Path: X-Original-To: 5gangip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 5gangip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9054F126BF6 for <5gangip@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Feb 2018 09:27:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.504 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.504 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AC_DIV_BONANZA=0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2072t_LmRrsZ for <5gangip@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Feb 2018 09:27:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr0-x241.google.com (mail-wr0-x241.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8D7C31205D3 for <5gangip@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Feb 2018 09:27:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr0-x241.google.com with SMTP id o76so5737445wrb.7 for <5gangip@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Feb 2018 09:27:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=HXidtJ6XuJydKcvwf1vuoUBEanqxleddK0OA1z/OyTM=; b=MqdnzH7NNH6CjV4C8A2uKEdVXssSikX/vNmn9OP7tG6vIg6XRD8mk3AlN58283GN6z sx5AGYX+dVMJJ5CHzSVjcU01bu7R9c6LCYIBJJ3mnUrCckT8fhcw2ZRM8P45EEo/CSKl xkf9xBB7iwRAevHlmAzMvBUBIVTeVSud4UtlKh4VCY/J7EUoGetfzBNQYL8S7n5yS/VB y4qSNaKR5TxEjTv1tJ3LG7KKtu2Cv56Vg4096IfMW2/UIsH4ZR6ni8R+NfutyBZHT0hl D8GvJygPwEqxKVkzd37k7z+zMc1V2y7OOY+HB5NmSPRJk2k5NFRSAVS5SlD2K7samdtI K5dg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=HXidtJ6XuJydKcvwf1vuoUBEanqxleddK0OA1z/OyTM=; b=n5oFxHPmM2byqTZdjI6RUGG6rN/J4WMnnlRPTDXNl4VCNKVS3dHvZC4qrL37HH+shQ QyygysTYONJIEMxlXyI3xDcX90rn1Y186B8YHj/d9SEEjzxtNMwaIpOKhBx5TqzwNWvl U9mTbT04q0g1COgtIUYaf51t5fsTYuRE2Z9vIsTnUTBN1J/LGpFcSsWXGSCFZY9qW0sf uk+6n0bmWYlSxewrt+rvLQ7cS5v04cGZEEAsuCS8+iT7aFu60cojG1q5dq67qt15llO/ A3mDjmPDaebKSbt/o0RLGHtVcygmaWcFeSrz25znJUOimj+b3Ck+/Wj8r+k1M6byfKjD Z6cQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPD4YG3JpPu+MxwV5Nq7eydtzGzq7rmr178ZF+e471YCcey9mwiD 2cAOLgwAYijM3ZBndqUOFC4QpJIP8NIhw3xgq+4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x227UxvL/EywqgO02Jw7sH2MIYtqD6ZloIz9b3Yu/E+1ahVH7QAd0uncdrsJYJc5r/aO2SXe4lZ0GpsnMxFVmJHw= X-Received: by 10.223.176.13 with SMTP id f13mr9211366wra.231.1518888457942; Sat, 17 Feb 2018 09:27:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: crowcroft@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.153.147 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Feb 2018 09:27:37 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <2647a39882e5469da8592bb8db87254e@HE105831.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> <0E01ED94-E799-431A-8E86-C9D9A73BC9D2@icloud.com> <001501d3a7e8$721b2830$56517890$@castellconsulting.com> From: Jon Crowcroft Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2018 17:27:37 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: CnG25MnZTp-l6tFg18Q9tidS_BQ Message-ID: To: "David S. Misell MSc MIET MBCS CISSP" Cc: stephen@castellconsulting.com, Jennifer Dean , Dr Sally Leivesley , Rick Chandler , Chiara Rustici , Dai Davis , Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de, behcet.sarikaya@gmail.com, 5GANGIP <5gangip@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1144bc2cfd40ea05656bc65e" Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 09:37:14 -0800 Subject: Re: [5gangip] plans for future work on Id-Loc split for 5G X-BeenThere: 5gangip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of implications of the upcoming 5th Generation \(fixed and\) Mobile communication systems on IP protocols." <5gangip.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2018 17:27:42 -0000 --001a1144bc2cfd40ea05656bc65e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable see also https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3D3058945 On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:57 PM, David S. Misell MSc MIET MBCS CISSP < david.misell@icloud.com> wrote: > Steven, Rick, > Sally commented on security in the european context on radio 4 today, I > see a derogation for this ! > > Best Regards, > > Dave > > David S. Misell MBCS MIET CISSP > david.misell@bcs.org > 07710380044 > misell.dave on skype > > > > On 17 Feb 2018, at 12:11, Dr Stephen P CASTELL < > stephen@castellconsulting.com> wrote: > > Rick > > > > My wish list: *(Mobile) Blockchain and GDPR =E2=80=93 how can blockchain = ever be > compliant with Art 17 GDPR, when its permanence and immutability is its k= ey > =E2=80=98thing=E2=80=99?* > > > > http://www.privacy-regulation.eu/en/article-17-right-to- > erasure-'right-to-be-forgotten'-GDPR.htm > > *"Right to erasure ('right to be forgotten')" ... (e) the personal data > have to be erased for compliance with a legal obligation in Union or Memb= er > State law to which the controller is subject;* > > > > https://hackernoon.com/forever-on-the-chain-c755838dfc79 > > https://bitsonblocks.net/2016/02/29/a-gentle-introduction- > to-immutability-of-blockchains/ > > https://www.coindesk.com/blockchain-immutability-myth/ > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/yec/2017/05/04/debunking- > blockchain-myths-and-how-they-will-impact-the-future-of- > business/#583e1d815609 > > > > Kind regards, > > Stephen Castell. > > > > *Dr Stephen Castell CITP CPhys FIMA MEWI MIoD* > > *Chairman, CASTELL Consulting* > > *PO Box 334, Witham, Essex CM8 3LP, UK* > > *Tel: +44 1621 891 776 <+44%201621%20891776> Mob: +44 7831 349 162 > <+44%207831%20349162>* > > *Email: **stephen@castellconsulting.com * > > *http://www.CastellConsulting.com* > *http://www.e-expertwitness.com* > > > > *Crypto: the Millennials=E2=80=99 Rock=E2=80=99n=E2=80=99Roll* > > > > *Committee Member,* *Programme Development & IT Professionalism, British > Computer Society* *Law Specialist Group* > > *http://www.bcs.org/category/10868* > > > Accredited Member, Forensic Expert Witness Association, *Los Angeles > Chapter* > > *Castell=E2=80=99s Dictum: =E2=80=9CYou cannot secure an ontologically un= reliable > technology by use of an ontologically unreliable technology=E2=80=9D**. = (1990)* > > *Castell=E2=80=99s Second Dictum: =E2=80=9CYou cannot construct an algori= thm that will > reliably decide whether or not any algorithm is ethical=E2=80=9D**. (201= 7)* > > > > *From:* D S Misell [mailto:david.misell@icloud.com > ] > *Sent:* 16 February 2018 23:19 > *To:* Dr Stephen P CASTELL ; Chiara > Rustici ; Dai Davis ; Jennifer > Dean > *Cc:* Rick Chandler > *Subject:* Fwd: [5gangip] plans for future work on Id-Loc split for 5G > > > > Legal posse, give your wish list to rick as CMA rep he will be at Mobile > world congress next week. > > Yours Faithfully, > > > > David S. Misell MIET MBCS CISSP > 0207 7239135 > > > > http://linkedin.com/in/misell > > > https://db.tt/ncfgMm3J > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/eo7rtdi59rzufln/misell_CV_Se17.docx > > > > Begin forwarded message: > > > > *From: *Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de > > *Subject: [5gangip] plans for future work on Id-Loc split for 5G* > > *Date: *15 February 2018 at 09:37:33 GMT > > *To: *5gangip@ietf.org > > *Cc: *behcet.sarikaya@gmail.com > > > > Dear all, > > After some good discussion here on the list and some initial contact with > IAB, we think it could be worth to spend more thoughts on the ID-Loc spli= t > topic of a mapping system providing end-to-end privacy of both Identities > and Location of peers. The use cases are 5G related route optimization fo= r > changing (mobile) points of attachment of both end terminals (UE) and > network function services (e.g. UPF) =E2=80=A6 > > Focus should be on concrete approaches which can be prototyped instead of > pure theoretical (academic) discussions > > We think the work needs a problem statement draft, a comprehensive list o= f > requirements, and a framework document showing the environment where the > solution would fit in (w/o yet a complete solution space analysis) =E2=80= =A6 in > that priority. > > We solicit for a discussion on the list before we meet in London. > > In London, IETF 101, we plan on organizing a side-meeting where we could > have a set of stimulating presentations. > > Topics we can imagine currently are > > - 5G lab trials. > > - Any initial work on the first deployment experience which potentially > underline the identified problem. > > Volunteers are welcome =E2=80=93 please announce your proposal to Behcet= and > Dirk! > > Other ideas, proposal, comments? Please speak up! > > Thanks a lot and Best Regards =E2=80=93 also on behalf of Behcet > > Dirk > > _______________________________________________ > 5gangip mailing list > 5gangip@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/5gangip > > > > > _______________________________________________ > 5gangip mailing list > 5gangip@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/5gangip > > --001a1144bc2cfd40ea05656bc65e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:57 PM, David S. Misell MSc MIET= MBCS CISSP <david.misell@icloud.com> wrote:
Steven, Rick,
Sally commente= d on security in the european context on radio 4 today, I see a derogation = for this !

Best = Regards,

Dave

David S. Misell M= BCS MIET CISSP
07710380044
misell.dav= e on skype



On 17 Feb 2018= , at 12:11, Dr Stephen P CASTELL <stephen@castellconsulting.com> wro= te:

Rick

=C2=A0

<= span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">My= wish list: (Mobile) Blockchain and GDPR =E2=80=93 how can blockchain ev= er be compliant with Art 17 GDPR, when its permanence and immutability is i= ts key =E2=80=98thing=E2=80=99?

=C2=A0

http://www.privacy-regulation.= eu/en/article-17-right-to-erasure-'right-to-be-forgotten= '-GDPR.htm

"Ri= ght to erasure ('right to be forgotten')" ... (e) the personal= data have to be erased for compliance with a legal obligation in Union or = Member State law to which the controller is subject;

=C2=A0

https://hackernoon.com/forever-on-the-chain-c75= 5838dfc79

https://bitsonblocks.net/2016/02/29/a-ge= ntle-introduction-to-immutability-of-blockchains/

https://www.coindesk.com/= blockchain-immutability-myth/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/yec/2017/05/04/debunkin= g-blockchain-myths-and-how-they-will-impact-the-future-of-bu= siness/#583e1d815609

<= /u>=C2=A0

Kind regards,

Stephen Castell.

=

=C2=A0

Dr Stephen Castell CITP CPhys FIMA MEWI MIoD

Chai= rman, CASTELL Consulting

PO Box 334, Witham, Essex CM8 3LP, UK

Tel: +44 1621 891 776=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0Mob: +44 7831 349 162<= /span>

Email:=C2=A0<= u>stephen@castellconsulting.com

http= ://www.CastellConsulting.com=C2=A0 http://www.e-expertwitness.com

=

=C2=A0

Crypto: the Millennials=E2=80=99 Rock=E2=80=99n=E2= =80=99Roll

=C2= =A0

<= i>Committee Member,=C2=A0Programme Development & IT Professionalism= , British Computer Society=C2=A0Law Specialist Group<= u>

http://www.bcs.org/category/10868<= u>

Accredited Member, Forensic Expert Witness Association, Los Ang= eles Chapter

Castell=E2=80=99s Dictum: =E2=80=9CYou cannot= secure an ontologically unreliable technology by use of an ontologically u= nreliable technology=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 (1990)<= /span>

Castell=E2=80=99s Second Dictum: =E2=80=9CYou cannot const= ruct an algorithm that will reliably decide whether or not any algorithm is= ethical=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 (2017)

=C2=A0

From: D S Misell [<= a href=3D"mailto:david.misell@icloud.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:david.mi= sell@icloud.com]
Sent: 16 February 2018 23:19
To:= Dr Stephen P CASTELL <stephen@castellconsulting.com>; Chiara Ru= stici <c.rustic= i@gmail.com>; Dai Davis <mail@daidavis.com>; Jennifer Dean <jendean10@gmail.com>
Cc: Rick Chandler <rick.chandler1@btinternet.com>
Subject= : Fwd: [5gangip] plans for future work on Id-Loc split for 5G=

=C2=A0

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">Legal posse, give your wish list to rick as CMA rep h= e will be at Mobile world congress next week.

<= /div>

=C2=A0

Begin forwarded message:

=C2=A0

Subject: [5gangip] plans for future w= ork on Id-Loc split for 5G

Date: 15 February 2018 at 09:37:33 GMT

<= span style=3D"font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Cc: = behcet.sarikaya@gmail.com=

=C2=A0<= /u>

Dear all,=

After some good discussion here on the list = and some initial contact with IAB, we think it could be worth to spend more= thoughts on the ID-Loc split topic of a mapping system providing end-to-en= d privacy of both Identities and Location of peers. The use cases are 5G re= lated route optimization for changing (mobile) points of attachment of both= end terminals (UE) and network function services (e.g. UPF) =E2=80=A6

Focus should be on concrete approaches which can = be prototyped instead of pure theoretical (academic) discussions<= /u>

We think the work needs a problem statement draft, a co= mprehensive list of requirements, and a framework document showing the envi= ronment where the solution would fit in (w/o yet a complete solution space = analysis) =E2=80=A6 in that priority.

We soli= cit for a discussion on the list before we meet in London.=

In London, IETF 101, we plan on organizing a side-= meeting where we could have a set of stimulating presentations.

Topics we can imagine currently are=

-=C2= =A05G lab trials.

- Any initial work on the=C2=A0first deployment experi= ence which potentially underline the identified problem.

Volunteers are welcome =E2=80=93 please =C2=A0announ= ce your proposal to Behcet and Dirk!=C2=A0

Other ideas, pr= oposal, comments? Please speak up!

Thanks a lot and Best Regards= =E2=80=93 also on behalf of Behcet

<= div>

Dirk

_____= __________________________________________
5gangip mailing list
= 5gangip@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.o= rg/mailman/listinfo/5gangip

=C2=A0


_______________________________________________
5gangip mailing list
5gangip@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/5gangip<= br>

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