RE: Water features Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re:Hilton Prague)

<hannu.hietalahti@nokia.com> Fri, 30 March 2007 07:45 UTC

Return-path: <68attendees-bounces@ietf.org>
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HXBnv-0002EQ-Ds; Fri, 30 Mar 2007 03:45:47 -0400
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HXBnt-0002EL-SC for 68attendees@ietf.org; Fri, 30 Mar 2007 03:45:45 -0400
Received: from smtp.nokia.com ([131.228.20.170] helo=mgw-ext11.nokia.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HXBns-0001AA-AQ for 68attendees@ietf.org; Fri, 30 Mar 2007 03:45:45 -0400
Received: from esebh108.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh108.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.145]) by mgw-ext11.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id l2U7jSJl023013; Fri, 30 Mar 2007 10:45:40 +0300
Received: from esebh103.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.33]) by esebh108.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 30 Mar 2007 10:45:26 +0300
Received: from esebe111.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.154]) by esebh103.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 30 Mar 2007 10:45:26 +0300
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Subject: RE: Water features Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re:Hilton Prague)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 10:45:25 +0300
Message-ID: <2DD2118061FBAB4987528EF695D078022C9DD9@esebe111.NOE.Nokia.com>
In-Reply-To: <6D168032-5A41-4DC4-BDC6-763CF42FE069@softarmor.com>
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
Thread-Topic: Water features Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re:Hilton Prague)
Thread-Index: AcdyX7RsOiwKCw9uTgiQaMPeL+LAcwAOt+Mg
References: <1073AF4F19F15C4CB635E21CAE2FE67F0194FB@emailhk1.jnpr.net><12647.1174917975@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca><11720.1174923620.530854@peirce.dave.cridland.net><20070327165356.GN25751@Sun.COM><d9c1c6da0703291541u597fb40dhcc4bb9df438ea3c2@mail.gmail.com><20070329230051.GS8252@Sun.COM> <6D168032-5A41-4DC4-BDC6-763CF42FE069@softarmor.com>
From: <hannu.hietalahti@nokia.com>
To: <dean.willis@softarmor.com>, <Nicolas.Williams@sun.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Mar 2007 07:45:26.0439 (UTC) FILETIME=[617E6B70:01C7729F]
X-Nokia-AV: Clean
X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 944ecb6e61f753561f559a497458fb4f
Cc: 68attendees@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: 68attendees@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Mailing list for IETF 68 attendees." <68attendees.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/68attendees>, <mailto:68attendees-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/68attendees>
List-Post: <mailto:68attendees@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:68attendees-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/68attendees>, <mailto:68attendees-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: 68attendees-bounces@ietf.org

Right,

it's largely a cultural issue. 

Many Europeans are used to carrying their drinks with them ONLY when hiking or skiing in the wilderness. Everywhere else we stop over at cafe, restaurant, or some roadside service for the car and the crew. It's not only about the drink or smoke, but it's also about having a break, to sit down and think. Or discuss. 

It may seem inefficient for American, as it looks like the Europeans are not capable of talking and drinking coffee (or driving) at the same time. But now you know why you need to order the mug holders as optional extras to your imported Euro car.

Part of American concept of comfort seems to be continuous supply of liquid refreshments. Once you have got used to it, having to cope without may feel less than perfect service. 

Many U.S. states are rather hot for the whole long summer. So cooling both the drinks and the houses means comfort. Sometimes this hospitality is so overwhelming that I need a pullover. But I am sure the intention is good, nevertheless.

That may be the reason for the raised eyebrows when I ask NOT to get any frozen lumps of water in my drink. For me it's enough to showel the white stuff away from my driveway maybe once a week for half a year. That's enough, thank you very much, and I definitely don't need any more in my drink now that I have got rid of the excessive supply at home. 

For the same reason in European winter comfort means heating, also outside the Nordic countries. That's why many of us overdo it to the level of discomfort. Just to make sure our guests don't feel cold. 

Sometimes mixing these things does not work by just multiplexing all ingredients. I would recommend drinking Italian or French coffee in American measures only when participating Iron Butt Association's Saddle Sore ride of 1000 miles in 24 hours.

The people outside U.S. and Europe could probably further elaborate on this collision of cultures.

The challenge of multi-cultural organisation is to recognise these needs, whether real or just something we have got used to, and to make sure that most people can stay in their comfort zone most of the time, wherever we meet.

BR,
Hannu Hietalahti
3GPP TSG CT chairman
Nokia
http://www.nokia.com/openness/
 

>-----Original Message-----
>From: ext Dean Willis [mailto:dean.willis@softarmor.com] 
>Sent: 30 March, 2007 03:03
>To: Nicolas Williams
>Cc: Mailing list for IETF 68 attendees.
>Subject: Re: Water features Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to 
>Prague (was: Re:Hilton Prague)
>
>On Mar 29, 2007, at 6:00 PM, Nicolas Williams wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Mar 29, 2007 at 06:41:10PM -0400, Keith Kyzivat wrote:
>>> Both solutions work very well to keep attendees and staff alike 
>>> hydrated.  I think a similar approach would work well for IETF -- 
>>> that way, one can grab
>>
>> This rarely happens at IETFs outside the U.S.  I suspect 
>European and 
>> other hotels simply don't have the containers, and probably 
>don't have 
>> the ice making capacity.
>
>and in many venues, people simply don't drink tap water. Often 
>for good reasons.
>
>Having been to lots of meetings in various parts of the world, 
>I'm beginning to suspect that it is a particularly North 
>American affectation to think that continual hydration is necessary.
>
>In addition to talking loudly, wearing brightly coulored 
>T-shirts with khaki pants and athletic shoes, and being unable 
>to walk uphill, North American tourists are most notable for 
>toting bottles of water.
>
>Outside of temperatures over 40°, a normal human can actually 
>go for several hours without water.
>
>I suspect the perceived need for water has much to do with 
>highly- promoted fad diets (some governmentally sponsored) in 
>the US encouraging people to drink more water via ostensibly 
>inflated claims of healthfullness.
>
>It's just not that necessary, and I'd guess it probably isn't 
>going to happen.
>
>--
>Dean
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>68ATTENDEES mailing list
>68ATTENDEES@ietf.org
>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/68attendees
>

_______________________________________________
68ATTENDEES mailing list
68ATTENDEES@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/68attendees