[68ATTENDEES] Moving ahead with tools.ietf.org

Pekka Savola <psavola@csc.fi> Wed, 28 March 2007 06:57 UTC

Return-path: <68attendees-bounces@ietf.org>
Received: from [] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWS60-0002zf-8a; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 02:57:24 -0400
Received: from [] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWS5y-0002zT-0i for 68attendees@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 02:57:22 -0400
Received: from smtp2.csc.fi ([]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWS5w-0000ot-HD for 68attendees@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 02:57:22 -0400
Received: from imap1.csc.fi (imap1.csc.fi []) by smtp2.csc.fi (MAILSERVER) with ESMTP id l2S6vJnu021594 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 28 Mar 2007 09:57:19 +0300
Received: from myrsky.csc.fi (myrsky.csc.fi []) (authenticated as psavola) by imap1.csc.fi (MAILSERVER) with ESMTP id l2S6vHOD018745 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 28 Mar 2007 09:57:18 +0300
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 09:57:17 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <psavola@csc.fi>
To: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>
In-Reply-To: <460903DB.4030108@levkowetz.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0703280944280.18925@sampo3.csc.fi>
References: <1073AF4F19F15C4CB635E21CAE2FE67F0194FB@emailhk1.jnpr.net><12647.1174917975@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca><11720.1174923620.530854@peirce.dave.cridland.net><A39393BA-6F1F-491A-A6CC-E4F2FC313DD6@muada.com> <200703262201.l2QM1CIT000901@bright.research.att.com> <5D1A7985295922448D5550C94DE29180F1FC9B@DEEXC1U01.de.lucent.com> <Pine.LNX.4.62.0703271247080.18925@sampo3.csc.fi> <460903DB.4030108@levkowetz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
X-Spam-Score: undef - relay marked with SkipSpamScan
X-CanItPRO-Stream: default
X-Canit-Stats-ID: Bayes signature not available
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5
Cc: "Mailing list for IETF 68 attendees." <68attendees@ietf.org>
Subject: [68ATTENDEES] Moving ahead with tools.ietf.org
X-BeenThere: 68attendees@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Mailing list for IETF 68 attendees." <68attendees.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/68attendees>, <mailto:68attendees-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/68attendees>
List-Post: <mailto:68attendees@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:68attendees-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/68attendees>, <mailto:68attendees-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: 68attendees-bounces@ietf.org

On Tue, 27 Mar 2007, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
> on 2007-03-27 11:52 Pekka Savola said the following:
>>   1) They should (for most part) replace the current IETF official pages.
>>      For example, a non-IETF-goer asked (IMHO appropriately), "why aren't
>>      the "tools.ietf.org/wg/foo" the official page, instead of the less
>>      informative official IETF page?
>>      In other words, there has been a lot of very good tools activity, but
>>      some of that should really be taken a few steps ahead into
>>      'production' use.
> Agreed to some extent, but there's a matter of how this is done.  For
> instance, how much of the limited secretariat resources should be spent
> on moving tools pages over to the NSS servers?  My viewpoint has been
> that it's more important to get NSS to implement tracker extensions,
> which will provide input of information not available today, making more
> advanced services and information presentation possible.
> If we find a solution which (for now) accomplish 1) above by better cross-
> linking, the cost in NSS manpower and IASA funds would be much less, and
> we could accomplish this much faster.

Yeah, I agree that this is a fine line (and it would likely also slow down 
the further development of the tools) and is a reason why I haven't pushed 
for this more.

One potential cross-referencing approach might be to consider whether 
http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/wg-dir.html could provide references to 
the http://tools.ietf.org/wg/foo/ pages instead of the current ones.

(The only shortcoming with the tools WG page for non-IETF folks is that 
the charter of the group is not quite as obvious but I'm not sure if this 
could be made any better)

I haven't thought about whether the other current IETF pages should better 
be "toolsified", maybe so (e.g., direct pointers to tools-enabled IETF 
agendas or some I-D or RFC post-processing and diffing mechanisms).

>>   2) The tools site should have very easy changelog that describes all the
>>      changes made to services (or at least gives pointers to distinct,
>>      tool-specific changelogs).  Modifications and enhancements are made
>>      all the time, and you can't really exploit all of them unless you know
>>      what they are or stumble on them by accident.
> Good point.  I'll set up a RSS and/or Atom feed for tool changelog
> notes, and aggregate these into a once-per-week message on the
> tools-discuss list, and maybe a once-per-month message to ietf-announce.
> Does this sound like a plan?

Sounds excellent to me.  Please put a prominent "What's new?" or "What's 
changed?" on the web pages as well for the benefit of those who don't use 
RSS/ATOM feeds nor subscribe the mailing lists (e.g., non-IETF goers, 
non-regular participants).

68ATTENDEES mailing list