Smoke at Meetings was Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: Hilton Prague)
Ray Pelletier <rpelletier@isoc.org> Mon, 26 March 2007 17:08 UTC
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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 13:10:09 -0400
From: Ray Pelletier <rpelletier@isoc.org>
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To: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
Subject: Smoke at Meetings was Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: Hilton Prague)
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As a non-smoker from a family where one parent died from smoking-related causes I am very sensitive to the matter.We will be more diligent on the matter. Ray John C Klensin wrote: > For those expressing a desire to return --soon and often-- to Prague > and his hotel, one thought... > > I like the hotel and the staff and the facilities. I mostly like the > city. Under the right circumstances, I'd be delighted to come back. > > I am also sympathetic to, and agree with, those who say "if you decide > to come into a particular culture, you accept the norms of that > culture and work with them". > > However,.. > > I think there are issues about health and accessibility that supercede > _any_ other considerations of meeting site choices. In order to have > effective IETF meetings that are open to all participants and > contributors in the IETF, we must put health-related criteria above > all others. If a country or city or hotel does not, or cannot, > provide an environment in which people can attend a meeting for a week > without the certainty of serious and immediate health damage from the > atmosphere (indoor or outdoor), I will defend their right to make that > decision, but the IETF should not even consider meeting there. If a > facility and city are not largely wheelchair-accessible, the IETF > should not even consider meeting there. And so on (although I don't > think the list is very long). > > There may be tradeoffs if a facility can provide a truly effective > smoke-free environment or adequate mobility accommodations -- telling > an IETF participant that he or she may not be able to comfortably > leave the meeting hotel for a week is unattractive, but may not be a > showstopper if there are adequate facilities within the meeting > hotel. But telling people that the cannot attend and participate and > remain healthy is, from my perspective, just not acceptable if we have > any other possible choice. > > In the case of Prague, we heard the argument many times in the week > before the meeting that this choice of city was reasonable because > there are lots of participants in Europe and, to a European, one city > is as good as another. Ok. But, if one believes that, then there is > no excuse for going to a city that hasn't accepted growing norms, even > in Europe, about indoor air quality (or, for that matter, > accessibility standards or anything else that belongs on this short > list of absolute priorities. > > Even the "need to look at the people various visa regulations will > keep out" issue is, to me, secondary to this one even though I > consider that one very, very, important and hope we will never again > hold two consecutive meetings that de facto exclude the same people. > > I am luckier than Randy because my body's potentially serious > reactions to small amounts of tobacco smoke can be kept within > reasonable levels by a combination of caution and drugs. But I don't > like some of the drugs and, more important, they significantly reduce > my ability to function (as some people may have noticed this week). > To either of us, this type of environment is a fairly clear "don't > come and participate remotely if at all" message. I do not believe > IETF should be delivering that message, especially to active > contributors. > > john > > > _______________________________________________ > 68ATTENDEES mailing list > 68ATTENDEES@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/68attendees > > _______________________________________________ 68ATTENDEES mailing list 68ATTENDEES@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/68attendees
- [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: Hilto… John C Klensin
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Soininen Jonne (Nokia-NET/Espoo)
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Aaron Stone
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Randall Gellens
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Fred Baker
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Nemeth Krisztian
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… John C Klensin
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… John C Klensin
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Joel Jaeggli
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Fred Baker
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Ole Jacobsen
- RE: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Yaakov Stein
- RE: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Sasha Vainshtein
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Peter Tomsu
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Scott W Brim
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Andrew G. Malis
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague Doug Montgomery
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Mark Williams
- Re: [***SPAM*** Score/Req: 10.4/4.5] Re: [68ATTEN… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague Avri Doria
- [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (Prague Marriot… Natale, Bob
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Robert Loomans
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Michael Richardson
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Dave Cridland
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Jeffrey Hutzelman
- Smoke at Meetings was Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning… Ray Pelletier
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Bill Fenner
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Jeffrey Hutzelman
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… John C Klensin
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Ray Pelletier
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague Tony Hansen
- RE: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Drage, Keith (Keith)
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Eliot Lear
- RE: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Pekka Savola
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] IETF tools Tim Chown
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Jim Martin
- RE: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Romascanu, Dan (Dan)
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Avri Doria
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Ray Pelletier
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Janet P Gunn
- Floor plan Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague … Janet P Gunn
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Randall Gellens
- RE: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Randall Gellens
- RE: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Randall Gellens
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Randall Gellens
- Water features Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Pra… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Michael Richardson
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to Prague (was: Re: H… Randall Gellens
- Re: Water features Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to… John C Klensin
- Re: Water features Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to… YAO Jiankang
- Re: Water features Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to… Nicolas Williams
- [68ATTENDEES] Moving ahead with tools.ietf.org Pekka Savola
- Re: Water features Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to… John C Klensin
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Moving ahead with tools.ietf.org Aaron Stone
- [68ATTENDEES] Maybe we should be talking on the I… Spencer at Yahoo
- RE: [68ATTENDEES] Maybe we should be talking on t… Yaakov Stein
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Moving ahead with tools.ietf.org Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Moving ahead with tools.ietf.org Sandra Murphy
- Re: Water features Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to… Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Moving ahead with tools.ietf.org Aaron Stone
- Re: Water features Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to… John C Klensin
- Re: [68ATTENDEES] Moving ahead with tools.ietf.org Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: Water features Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to… Michael Richardson
- Re: Water features Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to… Keith Kyzivat
- Re: Water features Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to… Nicolas Williams
- Re: Water features Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to… Dean Willis
- RE: Water features Re: [68ATTENDEES] Returning to… hannu.hietalahti