Re: [6gip] 6G in 3GPP?

["Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)" <[e-mail]>]

Hello Bechet

In your mail sent  19th of Now you are attaching presentations.
In Alex’ presentation, there is slide titled 6G-related efforts. In that slide the last bullet item reads “• 3GPP Release 17 talks also 6G”.

I can assure you that Rel 17 is not addressing 6G for sure. There are no SA1 study items on 6G.

Please have look at the link that Stefan Alfredsson shared. It is point to a mid-generation step to 5G. What is mid-generation in your opinion?
Isn’t it midway?

Best regards
Hannu

From: Behcet Sarikaya <[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:31 PM
To: Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo) <[e-mail]>
Cc: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [6gip] 6G in 3GPP?

Hi Hannu,


On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 9:58 AM Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo) <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
Hello

Neither I know any, nor my colleagues any 3GPP documents about 6G.

I checked our chair slides at  IETF 109 side meeting, we have no mention of 3GPP doing 6G there.

3GPP is currently at mid-way with 5G. There will still be a number of releases left for 5G  to come.

This is wrong.
5G is already here. Samsung had 5G phone in 2019. Apple iPhone 12 was introduced in 2020 with 5G.
There are deployments going on worldwide.

It seems you are confusing 3GPP Releases with 5G deployments. 5G came with the first release that introduced 5G, I think it was Release 15.
So any operator compliant with that release claims to support 5G in its network. In the US almost all major operators claim to have 5G.

Newer releases of course are developed as Release 16, 17, etc. They introduce many nice features. No issues with that.
However, as far as I know the operators usually do not update their networks with any new release that comes up.
With LTE, as far as I remember the most popular release was Release 12, (I think)  which was the most widely deployed.

In fact, I assume that now when 5G is pushing towards new verticals (mIoT, industry, vehicular, etc.) there will be new requirements for protocol work needed for 5G.
For example, consider the discussion about multi-path support for QUIC in QUIC wg. Similar requests are likely to come.

Therefore, I am on the opinion that 6G work, even 6G related protocol research work in the IRTF, should wait for use cases (and radio extensions) that 5G is not able to respond.

We do not have any IRTF request currently, so I can not talk about that, IRTF is another issue.
For our list, we don't have a charter to follow. We are a mailing list,we submitted a short description text to IESG which was approved.
So we can discuss freely all issues around 6G  mostly as they are related to IP, hence the name 6gip.

We plan on continuing to host side meetings, continue to discuss the developments on 6G, as we see projects are popping up all over the world. The conferences are having 6G sessions, special or invited talks on 6G, etc.
So the question of what is 6G is going to get clarified more and more as we go along. If our discussions, the work people do in this list contributes to that, even better.



I believe that one day 3GPP SA1 will start working on developing requirements for 6G. We don't know when, maybe as someone active in 3GPP, you can tell us.

Regards,
Behcet


Best regards
Hannu

-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Petrescu <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2021 10:40 AM
To: Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo) <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: 6G in 3GPP?

Me too I would like to ask I would like whether someone knows of a document on the 3gpp.org<http://3gpp.org> site that has the term '6G' in it?

Le 12/01/2021 à 17:55, Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo) a écrit :
> Hello Alexandre
>
> In your slides you claim the 6G is discussed in Rel 17. Can you tell
> in which document or WG?
>
> I am involved quite a bit in 3GPP as well as in 6G research and I am
> not aware of any of such discussion.
>
> Without a reference I must consider that statement be misinformation.
>
> Best regards
>
> Hannu

Thanks for having gone through the slides; the slides tried to summarize the discussions on the email list at that time.

It might be that a potential reationship between 3GPP and 6G to be a stretch.

I might bear responsibility of having misread the emails, or read them too quickly, when drawing a conclusion that 3GPP might work on 6G, and writing that down.  Sorry for misunderstanding.

We had some mention on this list of an NGMN alliance (Next Generation Mobile Networks) which initiated a task force on 6G; elsewhere, NGMN is ack'ed as a contributor to 3GPP by a wikipedia article.  That might make it that 3GPP might have some work on 6G.

It might be that some discussions between usual contributors to 3GPP might have mentioned 6G even though there might be no document on 3gpp.org<http://3gpp.org> that reads '6G'.  For my part, I do not know what document is Rel 17 more precisely, but I suspect I could find Rel 17 on 3gpp.org<http://3gpp.org>.

It might be that other industry alliances (e.g. 5GAA) could be outright opposed to work on things deemed "6G".  It might be that such opposition is supported by other funding bodies.  I do not know why the opposition, but that is the way it is.

If, for some reason, 3GPP considers the talk of 6G to be too early, and why not potentially disruptive to the ongoing work of 5G, then that is a 3GPP problem to solve.  That would not be the only problem they should address.  I suspect a ling standing problem is even the name "3G" in a 3GPP working on something else than 3G (e.g. 3GPP working on 4G or 5G).

I want to tell also that there might be other problems of 5G, on which 3GPP works, and which deserve attention.

Such problems could be solved by working on something new, like 6G.

It is a speculation from my part.

I would like to ask others whether someone knows of a document on the 3gpp.org<http://3gpp.org> site that has the term '6G' in it?

Alex

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