Re: [6gip] 6G

Lars Eggert <lars@eggert.org> Thu, 14 January 2021 12:12 UTC

Return-Path: <lars@eggert.org>
X-Original-To: 6gip@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: 6gip@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52A9E3A1471 for <6gip@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 14 Jan 2021 04:12:21 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.099
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=eggert.org
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f1XGfMXqJWSG for <6gip@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 14 Jan 2021 04:12:20 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail.eggert.org (mail.eggert.org [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:211:32ff:fe22:186f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E5C113A1444 for <6gip@ietf.org>; Thu, 14 Jan 2021 04:12:19 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:429:77c6:2f03:640b] (unknown [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:429:77c6:2f03:640b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.eggert.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A918C60007B; Thu, 14 Jan 2021 14:12:13 +0200 (EET)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=eggert.org; s=dkim; t=1610626333; bh=w6zNClPwK6tBsPfd/l8IZ1xIECQiK4TiMZF0eS6CCTw=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=h8O8cw8WwaWPVz1vHX9YtZswVGt+Iivyr1bvUkpdMYieiPokHllfPDbTms2ygUQcS NszxuE7nmS6SKjP+c/udjMU950txU7jFlNHZj28IteBUiB3ViI5c97WBMFXPc1wwRT FprchIlzvEBP7IO4LUt/VX0qsOPT73MWlZzFAhrY=
From: Lars Eggert <lars@eggert.org>
Message-Id: <8C157FC7-F3FE-48FF-A935-4C9169A6DA24@eggert.org>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_3EA30BCD-F29B-4A6D-978A-3C900ED48FB6"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="pgp-sha512"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.40.0.2.32\))
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 14:12:13 +0200
In-Reply-To: <9b4112ad-afbc-80b3-427e-61e9c883bebb@gmail.com>
Cc: "Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)" <hannu.flinck@nokia-bell-labs.com>, "6gip@ietf.org" <6gip@ietf.org>, Kaippallimalil John <john.kaippallimalil@futurewei.com>
To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
References: <HE1PR07MB3386A43B4B32BF2CE5DC48C79BAA0@HE1PR07MB3386.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <248399ab-7dc1-ee13-928c-751568ea58e5@gmail.com> <HE1PR07MB3386A19851BFFF1ED5DDECAE9BA90@HE1PR07MB3386.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <SA0PR13MB40801CE55D18D1EF814ED7CDE8A99@SA0PR13MB4080.namprd13.prod.outlook.com> <86fad3c0-a5b0-f6a5-4671-1802d724c5a5@gmail.com> <43004FC4-43C2-4B52-99C8-33A9360DEA30@eggert.org> <9b4112ad-afbc-80b3-427e-61e9c883bebb@gmail.com>
X-MailScanner-ID: A918C60007B.AFCC0
X-MailScanner: Found to be clean
X-MailScanner-From: lars@eggert.org
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/6gip/FYA02DbA3woNZtw829FvvfHs2a8>
Subject: Re: [6gip] 6G
X-BeenThere: 6gip@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IP Issues in 6th Generation Mobile Network System \(6gip\)" <6gip.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/6gip>, <mailto:6gip-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/6gip/>
List-Post: <mailto:6gip@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:6gip-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6gip>, <mailto:6gip-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 12:12:21 -0000

On 2021-1-14, at 13:33, Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote:
> Le 14/01/2021 à 09:52, Lars Eggert a écrit :
>> The limits here are due to physical constraints - the speed of light in vacuum is about 300000 km/sec. An RTT of 1us means that the maximum distance to a base station needs to be below 150m. (Not including coding overheads, etc.)
> 
> The distance situation of base stations is not an impediment to achieve high bandwidths.

Of course it's not (quite the opposite).

But your "1 us" latency requirement means that your network will not be able to support longer distances, which makes it effectively a LAN.

> The presence of too many base stations was felt as a drawback also at the time prior to existence of mobile telephony.  But nowadays there are many base stations in densely populated areas, such as stadiums, markets and more.  Some times they might even be at a few hundred meters distance.

Yes, sometimes. But if you intend to prescribe a "1 us" radio RTT limit for "6G", *all* UEs must be closer than 150m to at least one base station at *all* times, due to speed-of-light.

This seems highly optimistic for a WAN. Or is your view of "6G" that of a network for urban areas only?

Lars