Re: [6lowapp] Where does TCP not work

Jonathan Hui <jhui@archrock.com> Tue, 03 November 2009 04:21 UTC

Return-Path: <jhui@archrock.com>
X-Original-To: 6lowapp@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: 6lowapp@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B16D83A6843 for <6lowapp@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 2 Nov 2009 20:21:41 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vCEPlQP8+d80 for <6lowapp@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 2 Nov 2009 20:21:41 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail.sf.archrock.com (mail.sf.archrock.com [216.121.16.71]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01AD03A672E for <6lowapp@ietf.org>; Mon, 2 Nov 2009 20:21:40 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.sf.archrock.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA713AF8E7; Mon, 2 Nov 2009 20:22:00 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at
Received: from mail.sf.archrock.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.sf.archrock.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MGevU5b8TUX0; Mon, 2 Nov 2009 20:21:56 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [10.0.1.199] (adsl-71-142-89-42.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [71.142.89.42]) by mail.sf.archrock.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA901AF836; Mon, 2 Nov 2009 20:21:55 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <50D02497-17A6-4EF2-AC6E-FE783E48E071@archrock.com>
From: Jonathan Hui <jhui@archrock.com>
To: Lars Eggert <lars.eggert@nokia.com>
In-Reply-To: <FD5C3C18-B400-4629-9BF8-E042FEF0919E@nokia.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 20:21:53 -0800
References: <5A85AE5A-4C5D-4A0F-8CDF-BEB4C69FF002@cisco.com> <5572F86E-C14F-48E6-922D-EABBB957EE22@nokia.com> <4AEF832C.9050603@eecs.berkeley.edu> <3C5BAF7D-CD31-434B-9AE2-BB8ED6C4B0E0@nokia.com> <66D8B4F0-8106-47C2-8CC1-936791195D22@archrock.com> <72876869-927E-45B6-A9D9-1A7E5A22E196@nokia.com> <EB72DA52-70E1-404B-A507-4871720A1FA8@archrock.com> <FD5C3C18-B400-4629-9BF8-E042FEF0919E@nokia.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.936)
Cc: "6lowapp@ietf.org" <6lowapp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [6lowapp] Where does TCP not work
X-BeenThere: 6lowapp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Application protocols for constrained nodes and networks <6lowapp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6lowapp>, <mailto:6lowapp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/6lowapp>
List-Post: <mailto:6lowapp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:6lowapp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6lowapp>, <mailto:6lowapp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 04:21:41 -0000

On Nov 2, 2009, at 7:46 PM, Lars Eggert wrote:

> It's definitely debatable whether the approach that we've so far  
> followed (making links and lower-layer network technologies  
> implement stuff so that TCP/IP runs OK) is the One True Answer.

Yes.

> As we expand IP into environments that are very different from the  
> "normal" Internet, it's not fully clear (to me at least) whether  
> this approach will continue to be efficient. At the bar BOF in  
> Stockholm, I made a strawman proposal that for 6LOWAPPs, we might  
> instead start thinking about giving up on TCP and implementing a set  
> of end-to-end transport functions that apps can pick & choose from,  
> depending on their needs (reliability, uni/multicast, error  
> protection, loss protection/FEC, flow control, etc.) Those functions  
> may not need to be provided by a separate protocol with a header and  
> a layer in the stack; we might make them available as a common  
> library that apps link against, for example.

Certainly sounds like an interesting idea and it would be a breath of  
fresh air not to be encumbered by TCP.  So can we afford to sacrifice  
interoperability with TCP-based tools/infrastructure?  There are  
clearly people on both sides and it's not clear to me how to come to  
closure except to recognize both sides for the time being.

--
Jonathan Hui