Re: [6tisch] New Version Notification for draft-karaagac-6tisch-int-00.txt

"Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com> Tue, 14 January 2020 14:17 UTC

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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: "yatch1.tanaka@toshiba.co.jp" <yatch1.tanaka@toshiba.co.jp>
CC: "Abdulkadir.Karaagac@UGent.be" <Abdulkadir.Karaagac@ugent.be>, "6tisch@ietf.org" <6tisch@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [6tisch] New Version Notification for draft-karaagac-6tisch-int-00.txt
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Subject: Re: [6tisch] New Version Notification for draft-karaagac-6tisch-int-00.txt
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Hello Yatch : )


> 
> I have comments, some of which Pascal's email covers, though.
> 
> - L3 seems a better place to implement such a mechanism than L2. L2 has no idea whether the packet (frame) under process is going toward the border router nor not. 

True, at L3 we could sign end to end. 

On the other hand it is hard to inject headers on the fly at L3 l, you have to do IP in IP. The IE technique avoids that problem.

In non storing all packets reach the root so I guess the proposal has a wide domain of applicability.

Take care,

Pascal 
> -----Original Message-----
>> 
>> From: 6tisch [mailto:6tisch-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Pascal Thubert
>> (pthubert)
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 10:11 PM
>> To: Abdulkadir Karaağaç (UGent-imec) <Abdulkadir.Karaagac@UGent.be>be>;
>> 6tisch@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [6tisch] New Version Notification for
>> draft-karaagac-6tisch-int-00.txt
>> 
>> Dear authors
>> 
>> This draft strikes me as very mature for a 00, and a very useful piece of work as
>> well.
>> It looks like you have implemented and tried it out already, correct?
>> 
>> A few comments and questions:
>> 
>> * Since you are using IEs Fig 1 could represent the insertion before the IPv6
>> payload.
>> * There could be a Fig describing the typical format of the inserted IE at the end
>> of 2.2
>> * A discussion on the chances of loss that are augmented as the frame are
>> enlarged could be useful in the intro
>> * A discussion of the INT header used as a hidden channel could be useful in
>> the security section
>> * It seems that the data can only be reported on packets that are going
>> outwards. You may want to indicate that in a classical non-storing network
>> with the root acting as backbone router, all packets fly through the 6BBR and
>> can be instrumented.
>> * Because of the Q bit it seems that the INT IE is also used in packets going
>> down: the source routing header may make it complicated to instrument such
>> packets. More description on the operation and size of inserted header in
>> downwards packets could be useful. Maybe we could make the query a
>> different IE altogether and save the Q bit for the future.
>> * If the telemetry relates to a transmission by a child, then the node ID is not
>> enough to identify the link since the child has multiple parents.
>> * Apparently in HbH mode 1 only the first nodes may insert data if the network
>> is deep and the room limited.
>> * In HbH mode 2, how do we balance the use of the space so that all hops have
>> an equal chance to report their information? Is that what 2.3.1 is all about?
>> * In section 2.3
>> ** I believe that if nodes use different strategies some may starve. Like for the
>> objective function, there should be a single strategy, that may have to be tuned
>> for the shape of the network.
>> ** in 2.3.1 if all nodes source traffic and not only the deepest ones, actually the
>> nodes near the root may have more opportunities, it really depends on the
>> shape of the network.
>> ** in 2.3.2 we seem to assume that only nodes deep in the network source
>> packets. In reality, say that there can be 3 values stored, then the number of
>> chances is proportional to the number of children and grandchildren, and
>> nodes deep in the network may have less of these.
>> ** it could be good that a node that refrains to insert redundant information may
>> still indicate that already sent information (sequence) is unchanged. Along
>> that line of thought how do we handle loss? A same sequence sent several
>> times?
>> * Security section should indicate that the payload IE is modified at each hop
>> and there is no guarantee that the original information is preserved
>> 
>> Great work!
>> 
>> Pascal
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: 6tisch <6tisch-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Abdulkadir
>>> Karaagaç
>>> (UGent-imec)
>>> Sent: mardi 14 janvier 2020 10:43
>>> To: 6tisch@ietf.org
>>> Subject: [6tisch] FW: New Version Notification for
>>> draft-karaagac-6tisch-int- 00.txt
>>> 
>>> Dear all,
>>> We have submitted a new draft describing an efficient and timely
>>> monitoring solution for 6TiSCH Networks. We believe that this
>>> mechanism can become a very powerful tool for 6TiSCH Networks with the
>>> contribution of the 6TiSCH community.
>>> 
>>> All kinds of feedback and comments are very welcome. Thanks a lot!
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Abdulkadir
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2020 23:21
>>> To: Jeroen Hoebeke (UGent-imec) <Jeroen.Hoebeke@UGent.be>be>;
>> Abdulkadir
>>> Karaağaç (UGent-imec) <Abdulkadir.Karaagac@UGent.be>
>>> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-karaagac-6tisch-int-00.txt
>>> 
>>> 
>>> A new version of I-D, draft-karaagac-6tisch-int-00.txt has been
>>> successfully submitted by Abdulkadir Karaagac and posted to the IETF
>> repository.
>>> 
>>> Name:        draft-karaagac-6tisch-int
>>> Revision:    00
>>> Title:        In-band Network Telemetry for 6TiSCH Networks
>>> Document date:    2020-01-11
>>> Group:        Individual Submission
>>> Pages:        14
>>> URL:
>> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-karaagac-6tisch-int-
>>> 00.txt
>>> Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-karaagac-6tisch-int/
>>> Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-karaagac-6tisch-int-00
>>> Htmlized:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-karaagac-6tisch-int
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Abstract:
>>>   This document describes In-band Network Telemetry for 6TiSCH
>>>   Networks, offering a flexible monitoring solution with minimal
>>>   resource consumption and communication overhead while supporting a
>>>   wide range of monitoring operations and strategies for dealing with
>>>   various network scenarios and use cases.  It enables 6TiSCH networks
>>>   to collect per-packet and per-hop monitoring information by
>>>   piggybacking telemetry information onto the data packets by
>>>   exploiting the remaining space in the IEEE 802.15.4e frames, thus not
>>>   impacting network behavior and performance.  This document also
>>>   discusses the data fields and associated data types for 6TiSCH INT
>>>   mechanism.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>>> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>>> 
>>> The IETF Secretariat
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 6tisch mailing list
>>> 6tisch@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tisch
>> _______________________________________________
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>> 6tisch@ietf.org
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