Re: [6tisch] Clarification on MSF-06

Christian Hopfner <christian.hopfner@endress.com> Mon, 14 October 2019 05:13 UTC

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From: Christian Hopfner <christian.hopfner@endress.com>
To: Tengfei Chang <tengfei.chang@gmail.com>, Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com>
CC: "draft-ietf-6tisch-msf@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-6tisch-msf@ietf.org>, "6tisch@ietf.org" <6tisch@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [6tisch] Clarification on MSF-06
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Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2019 05:13:15 +0000
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Subject: Re: [6tisch] Clarification on MSF-06
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Hi Tengfei,

that sound good to me, we may also add a recommendation for KAPERIOD into the constants table (figure 2)


Mit freundlichen Grüßen I Best regards 

Christian Hopfner 

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________________________________
From: Tengfei Chang <tengfei.chang@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2019 18:31
To: Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com>
Cc: Christian Hopfner <christian.hopfner@endress.com>om>; draft-ietf-6tisch-msf@ietf.org <draft-ietf-6tisch-msf@ietf.org>rg>; 6tisch@ietf.org <6tisch@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [6tisch] Clarification on MSF-06

Thanks Abdussalam for the comments, I updated the text as following:


   The node SHOULD send some form of keep-alive messages to all its
   neighbors it has negotiated cell with. The node sends a keep-

   alive message to the neighbor if no frames is received from that

   neighbor within a period, which is defined as KA_PERIOD. This mechanism

   is used to poll its children to ensure the child is still reachable.

   If the keep-alive message to a child fails at the link layer (i.e.

   the maximum number of link-layer retries is reached), the node

   SHOULD declare the child as unreachable. This can happen for example

   when the child node is switched off.


   When a neighbor is declared unreachable, the node MUST remove all
   negotiated cells with that neighbor from its own schedule.  In
   addition, it MAY issue a 6P CLEAR to that neighbor (which can fail at
   the link-layer). The node MAY be removed from the neighbor table.


Does this read good to you?

Tengfei



On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 5:06 PM Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com<mailto:abdussalambaryun@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Tengfei,

I am interested like Christian to see the poll mechanism into this draft. I don't think it is right to refer to RFC7554 (problem statement) which is an informational RFC, while this draft is a proposed standard, I think it is better to state the mechanism into the use case of minimum scheduling. Furthermore, the RFC7554 does not mention once Keep-Alive message, but mentions signalling messages, which may confuse users.

Best regards
AB

On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 3:41 PM Tengfei Chang <tengfei.chang@gmail.com<mailto:tengfei.chang@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Christian,

Thanks for pointing this issue out!
The neighbor polling section is removed at 03 version. Can't remember why we removed it.

I re-edited this sections to fit the current content of MSF draft. I paste it below. It will the be last step of boot behavior after it starts sending EB and DIO.


   The node SHOULD send some form of keep-alive messages to all its
   neighbors it has negotiated cell with.  The Keep-Alive (KA)
   mechanism is detailed in [RFC7554<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Frfc7554&data=02%7C01%7Cchristian.hopfner%40endress.com%7C99cd88789ede4e3997a108d74e687f24%7C52daf2a93b734da4ac6a3f81adc92b7e%7C1%7C0%7C637064083025962555&sdata=sY6Wt378p5MxJB0ZofsVEUKMjcySPT1OsC5MQ%2BuyCCU%3D&reserved=0>]mp;reserved=0>].  It uses the keep-alive messages
   to its preferred parent to stay synchronized.  It MAY use the keep-
   alive messages to other neighbors to have statistics on link quality.
   It MAY use the keep-alive messages to its children to ensure the
   child is still reachable.  The RECOMMENDED period for sending keep-
   alive messages is KA_PERIOD.



   If the keep-alive message to a child fails at the link layer (i.e.
   the maximum number of link-layer retries is reached), the node SHOULD
   declare the child as unreachable.  This can happen for example when
   the child node is switched off.

   When a neighbor is declared unreachable, the node MUST remove all
   negotiated cells with that neighbor from its own schedule.  In
   addition, it MAY issue a 6P CLEAR to that neighbor (which can fail at
   the link-layer). The node MAY be removed from the neighbor table.


If this is good for you, I will update the MSF to 07 with this change and propose WGLC right after.
Thanks!

Tengfei

On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 1:09 PM Christian Hopfner <christian.hopfner@endress.com<mailto:christian.hopfner@endress.com>> wrote:
Hi authors,

I may raise a clarification question before issuing WGLC for this draft.

In the past there was a section in the draft dealing with neighbor polling which seems to me beeing an important topic in terms of schedule consistency.

In the latest version I don't see a mechanism which explains how a parent keeps its schedule clean after some children silently disappeared (e.g.. batteries are gone). As per my understanding in such a case the negotiated RX cell towards the child remains in the schedule forever right?

Previously this was handled by neighbor polling. Which required the parent to send KA packets in a periodic manner to its childset. (This could be identified by evaluation of the neighbor set where a negotiated RX cell was scheduled to)

What is the idea now how to deal with that issue?

Mit freundlichen Grüßen I Best regards

Christian Hopfner

________________________________
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Endress+Hauser SE+Co. KG
Registergericht: Amtsgericht Freiburg i.Br. HRA 670225
Sitz der Gesellschaft: Maulburg
Persönlich haftender Gesellschafter: Endress+Hauser Administration SE
Sitz des persönlich haftenden Gesellschafters: Maulburg
Registergericht: Amtsgericht Freiburg i.Br. HRB 717326
Vorstand: Dr. Peter Selders
Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Matthias Altendorf

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Endress+Hauser SE+Co. KG
Register Court: Local Court of Freiburg i.Br. HRA 670225
Registered Office: Maulburg
General Partner: Endress+Hauser Administration SE
Registered Office of General Partner: Maulburg
Register Court: Local Court of Freiburg i.Br. HRB 717326
Chief Executive Officer: Dr. Peter Selders
Chairman of the Board: Matthias Altendorf

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