Re: [6tisch] removing the 'e'

["Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <[e-mail]>]

Hello René:

So far, 6TiSCH has not expressed requirements on TSCH. We have taken it as a base and built upon it. So I can hardly relate your words to something specific. 

- The base that we have considered for the architecture is very abstract since we had a goal to design beyond 802.15.4 whenever possible. From Pat's presentation, I have trouble believing that this text is affected at all, but then I'm interested in any specific point, and it is still time to fix Archie's text.

- For the more specific draft, a good suggestion could be to ask the Interest Group to review the minimal and 6top interface drafts and assert whether and how they are affected by the change to 802.15.4-2015, so as to promote an action either on the IEEE or on the IETF side. I gathered from Pat that they are not, but a formal review from the I-G could help close that discussion.

Pat, do you think that can be done?

Pascal


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rene Struik [mailto:[e-mail]]
> Sent: lundi 30 mars 2015 20:22
> To: Pascal Thubert (pthubert); [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: [6tisch] removing the 'e'
> 
> Hi Pascal:
> 
> I think the proper approach is that one investigates whether an updated version
> of a cross-referenced specification is suitable and, if so, one can adopt this.
> 
> To me, it is not a given that the revision effort of 802.15.4 that is currently on its
> way will automatically satisfy requirements 6TiSCH has.
> I am wondering how we would know, since so far technical changes have never
> been discussed/socialized within 6TiSCH itself (see also
> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/6tisch/current/msg02853.html).
> Anecdotal evidence regarding extensive changes makes me somewhat
> pessimistic here.
> 
> We should use a "trust but verify" approach here. Anything else would be
> imprudent. I think this more or less reiterates Subir Das's point.
> 
> So, I am not in favor of implicit, blind trust; only in favor of explicit, verified
> trust. Unfortunately, this means I think the recommendation you put forward
> below is imprudent.
> 
> As a final note:
> a) not sure why the 802.15.4e amendment would be incomplete. This seems to
> be in direct conflict with the note on page 1 of the 802.15.4e-2012 standard
> (NOTE-The editing instructions contained in this amendment define how to
> merge the material contained therein into the existing base standard and its
> amendments to form the comprehensive standard).
> b) Not sure how one can already predict now when the current revision work will
> be end and result in a revised standard. Assuming that this will be in 2015 (with
> sponsor ballot not having started yet) seems somewhat premature.
> 
> Rene
> 
> On 3/30/2015 11:23 AM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote:
> > Dear all:
> >
> > Pat presented at the WG on Thursday his recommendation to remove the 'e'
> after IEEE802.15.4 in our current charter and WG Documents (slides at the end
> of http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/92/slides/slides-92-6tisch-2.pdf ).
> >
> > The net effect would be that when a new version of the standard is published -
> 2015 should be available soon -, our normative references will implicitly pick
> that latest version and inherit the fixes that were made since then, as well as the
> additional PHYs on which 802.15.4 TSCH can operate.
> >
> > Pat indicated that this procedure is the expected one when referring to IEEE
> documents. Subir noted that at the IETF we normally have reference on
> particular versions, and a change in an RFC is a new RFC thus a new reference,
> and the IEEE form of reference may create an issue with IETF practice. The
> chairs will need to validate this before proceeding.
> >
> > On the question whether the change is desirable, Pat made the case that 15.4e
> is just an amendment, which is an incomplete reference, and that it yields some
> incorrectness that is now fixed in the upcoming 2015 version of 802.15.4.
> > All in all the group agreed that the change is desirable. We are now coming to
> the list to confirm the consensus. If you have an issue with removing the 'e'
> please speak up now.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Pascal and Thomas
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 6tisch mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tisch
> 
> 
> --
> email: [e-mail] | Skype: rstruik
> cell: [phone] | US: [phone]