Re: [6tisch] Time to Live - ASN in a packet

[Lijo Thomas <[e-mail]>]

Hi Pascal & Thomas,

The problem is inline with Pascal's comment on "looking for per packet
information to as to monitor and maybe influence the forwarding and delivery"

We are proposing a debt based distributed scheduling scheme where nodes make
forwarding decisions based on the PDR and end-to-end delay requirement
of flows.

We simulated our algorithm using 6tisch simulator and got encouraging results.
For this, we plugged in ASN value in the application payload and the
intermediate node updates the ASN value before forwarding.

Now we are implementing the algorithm on the hardware using OpenWSN environment
and intend to do inline with the standard.

We are actually contemplating on HbH at L3, similar to RPL RPI as described in
RFC 6553

But we would like to understand that if any options is available in the 6tisch
framework.

Expecting your valuable comments..!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks & Regards
Lijo Thomas



On August 25, 2016 at 1:39 PM "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <[e-mail]>
wrote:

> 
>  Hello Lijo:
> 
> 
> 
>  Like Thomas, I’d love to understand what your case and solution approach is.
> Is asynchronous OAM like the openWSN application enough for you? Or else are
> you looking for per packet information to as to monitor and maybe influence
> the forwarding and delivery?
> 
> 
> 
>  In the latter case, your work may be related to other efforts, and if your
> experimentation is successful then why not consider a more general
> applicability?
> 
> 
> 
>  All in all I have this feeling that time-aware forwarding is on the way, in
> which exact shape and form is left TBD:
> 
>  -        DetNet is discussing validating the end-to-end latency of individual
> packets to make sure that the delivery was within bounds. Is that similar to
> your need?
> 
>  -        I’ve participated to work where the QoS of the packet was estimated
> at each hop depending on whether the packet was early or late vs. a predefined
> schedule. This makes things much simpler but slightly less deterministic than
> a tight scheduling.
> 
>  -        There’s also OAM work that uses HbH headers to monitor the packets
> as they flow along the network (IOW, in band as opposed to asynchronous OAM
> packets)
> 
> 
> 
>  My understanding is that you want HbH behavior.
> 
>  -        If you are doing a mesh, you can probable hack a mesh header.
> 
>  -        But if you are considering a larger applicability (I hope so!) then
> you probably want to hack at L3.
> 
> 
> 
>  You can find tons of ideas of what can be done at L3 in various environments
> in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dt-detnet-dp-alt-03
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dt-detnet-dp-alt-03> , which is pending
> adoption call.
> 
> 
> 
>  But if you narrow down to 6TiSCH, then you probably want to design you own
> option in the HbH header and incode it in a 6LoRH similar to the RPL RPI. You
> may use ASN to start with, but when going standard you’ll have to abstract
> that a little bit, even if the data in the packet is unchanged.
> 
> 
> 
>  Very keen to hear more!
> 
> 
> 
>  Pascal
> 
> 
> 
>  From: 6tisch [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Thomas Watteyne
>  Sent: jeudi 25 août 2016 08:28
>  To: Lijo Thomas <[e-mail]>
>  Cc: [e-mail]
>  Subject: Re: [6tisch] Time to Live - ASN in a packet
> 
> 
> 
>  Lijo,
> 
> 
> 
>  It looks like you are describing two things: the TTL (or hop limit in IPv6
> parlance) which decrements by one by each router, and some timestamp which can
> be used to measure end -to-end latency. I'm assuming the latter.
> 
> 
> 
>  I'm also assuming you are doing this as part of an experiment, to look at the
> end-to-end/hop-by-hop latency. In that context, you probably aren't looking
> for standardizing that (or even standards-compliance during your experiment),
> but more at an implementation technique to keep that information.
> 
> 
> 
>  Of course, the answer depends entirely on the information we are missing. But
> assuming you are playing with the OpenWSN implementation, there is already an
> application called rrt which sends the ASN as application payload at the
> source, and records the ASN when the DAGroot has received that. You can then
> substract one by the other and do some stats. Please ask further questions to
> the OpenWSN community [1] as such technical discussion on a particular
> implementation doesn't belong on the 6TiSCH WG ML.
> 
> 
> 
>  If you are using the commercial SmartMesh IP solution by Linear Tech [2],
> good news, all of that is already built in. The manager (~DAGroot) keeps track
> of timing and can send you average latencies for each of your nodes. If you're
> interested, you can look at these numbers "live" on deployments in Argentina
> [3,4] or California [5]. As you might imagine, latency/throughput/lifetime
> trade-off for one another, so there is a handy "performance estimator" tool
> you can use [6,7]. For further question on this topic, please use
> www.dustcloud.org <http://www.dustcloud.org> .
> 
> 
> 
>  Finally, looking at lowering latency in 6TiSCH has been an important research
> topic in the last year or so. Look for example at the "Low-Latency Scheduling
> Function" [8] work which lowers the per-hop latency to 10's of ms withing the
> 6TiSCH framework.
> 
> 
> 
>  Thomas
> 
> 
> 
>  [1] www.openwsn.org <http://www.openwsn.org>
> 
>  [2] www.linear.com/dust <http://www.linear.com/dust>
> 
>  [3] http://www.savethepeaches.com/ <http://www.savethepeaches.com/>
> 
>  [4] PEACH: Predicting Frost Events in Peach Orchards Using IoT Technology.
> Thomas Watteyne, Ana Laura Diedrichs, Keoma Brun-Laguna, Javier Emilio Chaar,
> Diego Dujovne, Juan Carlos Taffernaberry, Gustavo Mercado. EAI Endorsed
> Transactions on the Internet of Things, to appear in 2016.
> 
>  [5] http://www.snowhow.io/ <http://www.snowhow.io/>
> 
>  [6] http://www.linear.com/docs/42452 <http://www.linear.com/docs/42452>
> 
>  [7] Industrial IEEE802.15.4e Networks: Performance and Trade-offs. Thomas
> Watteyne, Joy Weiss, Lance Doherty, Jonathan Simon. IEEE International
> Conference on Communications (IEEE ICC), Internet of Things Symposium, London,
> UK, 8-12 June 2015.
> 
>  [8] LLSF: Low Latency Scheduling Function for 6TiSCH Networks. Tengfei Chang,
> Thomas Watteyne, Qin Wang, Xavier Vilajosana. IEEE International Conference on
> Distributed Computing in Sensor Systems (DCOSS), Washington, DC, USA, 26-28
> May 2016.
> 
> 
> 
>  On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 7:57 AM, Lijo Thomas <[e-mail]
> <mailto:[e-mail]> > wrote:
> 
>   > > 
> >   Hi all,
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   We are working on problem which needs the Time to Live (TTL) information
> > in terms of ASN  to be included as part of the Packet.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   We require the intermediate nodes to update TTL at each hop.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   How this information can be passed in a 6tisch framework.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   Suggestions are welcome..
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   Thanks & Regards
> > 
> >   Lijo Thomas
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
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> 
> 
> 
>  --
> 
>  _______________________________________
> 
> 
> 
>  Thomas Watteyne, PhD
> 
>  Research Scientist & Innovator, Inria
> 
>  Sr Networking Design Eng, Linear Tech
> 
>  Founder & co-lead, UC Berkeley OpenWSN
> 
>  Co-chair, IETF 6TiSCH
> 
> 
> 
>  www.thomaswatteyne.com <http://www.thomaswatteyne.com>
> 
>  _______________________________________
> 

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