Re: [6tsch] minutes discussion models draft 1 October
Thomas Watteyne <watteyne@eecs.berkeley.edu> Tue, 01 October 2013 18:58 UTC
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From: Thomas Watteyne <watteyne@eecs.berkeley.edu>
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 11:58:26 -0700
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Subject: Re: [6tsch] minutes discussion models draft 1 October
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I don't believe we want to split this draft even more, right? On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Qin Wang <qinwang@berkeley.edu> wrote: > Xavi and all, > > When we talk about data model (DM), there are likely several points of > view. For example: > (1) DM is a set of messages, their format, and the behavior caused by the > messages. > (2) Besides (1), also includes the interface with specific protocol, e.g. > URI in CoAP. > > From the point (1) of view, I agree Xavi. But, because URI is involved, > so, it becomes CoAP Data Model. > > So, can we separate the common part of DM, i.e. point (1) from protocol > specific part of DM, i.e. something like URI? > > What do you think? > > Qin > > > > On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 2:42 AM, Xavier Vilajosana Guillen < > xvilajosana@eecs.berkeley.edu> wrote: > >> HI all, >> >> I have a question raising from the minutes (sorry I could not connect >> today). >> >> If title of the draft is "6TiSCH CoAP data Model" this means that in the >> future we will have "6TiSCH *foo *data Model". Is that the direction we >> want? Data Model is the way to represent message content (i.e what goes in >> the payload and is used by 6top commands). Why is this specific to CoAP? >> >> Another aspect is interaction models, i.e message flows which in that >> case they are related to the capabilities of the transport mechanism. >> >> just thoughts.. Sorry if I really go back to something you already >> discussed and it is really clear. >> >> X >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Thomas Watteyne < >> watteyne@eecs.berkeley.edu> wrote: >> >>> All, >>> >>> You will find the minutes of the discussion about the models draft from >>> this morning at >>> https://bitbucket.org/6tsch/meetings/wiki/131001_webex_models_draft (also >>> copy-pasted below). >>> >>> Thomas >>> >>> --- >>> >>> Minutes Webex 1 October 2013, 6TiSCH group, models draft team >>> >>> Note: timestamps in PDT. >>> Taking notes *(using Etherpad)* >>> >>> 1. Thomas Watteyne >>> 2. Raghuram Sudhaakar >>> >>> Present *(alphabetically)* >>> >>> 1. Alaeddine Weslati >>> 2. Dan Romascanu >>> 3. Diego Dujovne >>> 4. Pascal Thubert >>> 5. Pouria Zand >>> 6. Qin Wang >>> 7. R. Nabati >>> 8. Raghuram Sudhaakar >>> 9. Thomas Watteyne >>> >>> Agenda >>> >>> - Present pre-draft ToC *[Raghuram/Pouria]* >>> - Discuss ToC >>> - Define contents of each section >>> >>> Minutes >>> >>> - *[08.05]* meeting starts. >>> - *Raghuram* shares pre-draft through Webex >>> - goals for today: define ToC, define contents of each section, >>> pick title >>> - Scope is to include data and interaction model for CoAP. At a >>> later stage, extract information model as separate draft. >>> - "6TiSCH data model" or "6TiSCH CoAP data model"? >>> - *[Thomas]* personal opinion: have CoAP in title >>> - *[Qin]* why interaction model on top of information model? >>> - *[Raghuram]* we want to define message flows between PCE and >>> nodes. Data model is exact definition of payload. We had rough consensus on >>> using name-value pairs. Interaction model for CoAP or RSVP in future >>> drafts. Interaction model provides abstract model of interaction between >>> entities. >>> - *[Qin]* RFC3444, interaction flows should be part of the data >>> model? We should not conflict with RFC3444. >>> - *[Thomas]* We may want to split the interaction from this (data >>> model) draft. >>> - *[Qin]* Data definition and coding is common part. For me, >>> experience with different definitions. Don't want another terminology. >>> - *[Dan]* Not extremely familiar with 6TiSCH but experience with >>> data and information model. In the IETF, we have clear definitions about >>> data and information model. RFC3444 accepted and used as reference. There >>> are differences, i.e. interaction model. We need to stick with RFC3444 as >>> close as possible. >>> - *[Raghuram]* Goal of interaction model is try to extract >>> information model at a later stage. CoAP is one of the transports we are >>> using today, but we can use other protocol at a later stage. We can name it >>> differently later "interaction method". >>> - *[Dan]* If we are inventing a new name, it does not matter too >>> much. We are looking at mapping different transports. >>> - *[Raghuram]* Goal of interaction model is to extract the >>> information model. >>> - *[Raghuram]* Change to ToC: remove interaction? >>> - *[Thomas]* Could be replaced by example scenarios. >>> - *[Pascal]* We have identified interaction at L2, L3 and L5. We >>> need to have discussion about the models. >>> - *[Raghuram]* Conclusion: in ToC, new section 3.4 with "example >>> interactions". Message formats would be moved up to 3.3, name-value pairs >>> proposed. >>> - *[Thomas]* Rough consensus? >>> - *[Qin]* what's the different between management and informational >>> resources? >>> - *[Raghuram]* management resources are R/W, informational resources >>> are R (e.g. DAGrank). >>> - *[Thomas]* We could walk through ToC? >>> - *[Raghuram]* >>> - 3.1 naming convention for URI schemes. For example, root >>> resource "6t". Includes naming convention for resources under root resource. >>> - 3.2 resource of 6top we want to expose, i.e. management and >>> informational resource. >>> - 3.2.4 user installed resources, e.g. subscribe for particular >>> implementation. >>> - *[Raghuram]* Should we have extensible resources? >>> - *[Thomas]* Yes. >>> - *[Qin]* What the functional description of a resource? Related to >>> not only management but also informational resources. Should we put every >>> description attached to every resource? Looking at the content, I can >>> imagine a resource list, with a description for each one. Suggestion is to >>> put description just following the resource list. >>> - *[Raghuram]* Fine with that. >>> - *[Pouria]* Other change "functional description of resources" will >>> fold into 3.2.1 and 3.2.2. >>> - *[Raghuram]* Resource is just the URI, linked to particular 6top >>> variable. Methods would fall under description of resource. >>> - *[Qin]* Description of the MIB? >>> - *[Raghuram]* End-user should be able to get a specific parameters. >>> Returned as name-value pairs. If an entity wants the entire MIB, we will >>> have a separate resource. >>> - *[Thomas]* Mapping of 6top commands included? >>> - *[Raghuram]* Yes. Mapping of table of 6top commands presented in >>> previous calls. >>> - *[Pouria]* In resource management, information that can be written >>> by PCE, or commands to be executed. >>> - *[Raghuram]* Everything that change the TSCH schedule falls under >>> the management resource. >>> - *[Raghuram]* Section 4 will be moved up. A message format will be >>> attached to each URI. >>> - *[Thomas]* Map the attributes from minimal draft and the commands >>> from 6top draft. >>> - *[Raghuram]* That is the plan. >>> - *[Thomas]* What are extensions? >>> - *[Raghuram]* We don't want to define the URI for every attribute, >>> we want to enable people to install a new resource with a definition. >>> - *[Raghuram]* In that context, what are profiles? >>> - *[Thomas]* Profile is overarching modification to basic behavior: >>> e.g. adding resources or adding method to existing resource. >>> - *[Qin]* Understanding about profile: resource is fixed, behavior >>> of resource can be configurable. >>> - *[Pascal]* +1 it's very important we are able to do add to basic >>> behavior. >>> - *[Diego]* How can we describe a trigger, e.g. number of >>> measurements to average over. >>> - *[Thomas]* Do we have a solution? >>> - *[Raghuram]* Yes, complex triggers are defined using well-known >>> formats. RFC already defines how to encode several thresholds. Output would >>> be sent on CoAP response or observe notification. One generic method for >>> any kind of trigger. >>> - *[Raghuram]* In profiles, modify or add behavior. Add is easy. >>> Profiles as a way to define extra sets of complex triggers. Discovery. What >>> we could express as profiles are extra complex triggers. >>> - *[Thomas]* What are the next steps? >>> - *[Raghuram]* Updated version of draft by next week to discuss >>> progress. Invite contributors. >>> - *[Thomas]* Name of draft? >>> - *[Raghuram]* What about "6TiSCH CoAP data model". >>> - *[Thomas]* We need to know editor to create repository. >>> - *[Raghuram]* AOB? >>> >>> No other business raised. >>> >>> - *[09.05]* meeting ends. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> 6tsch mailing list >>> 6tsch@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tsch >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> 6tsch mailing list >> 6tsch@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tsch >> >> >
- [6tsch] minutes discussion models draft 1 October Thomas Watteyne
- Re: [6tsch] minutes discussion models draft 1 Oct… Xavier Vilajosana Guillen
- Re: [6tsch] minutes discussion models draft 1 Oct… Thomas Watteyne
- Re: [6tsch] minutes discussion models draft 1 Oct… Qin Wang
- Re: [6tsch] minutes discussion models draft 1 Oct… Thomas Watteyne
- Re: [6tsch] minutes discussion models draft 1 Oct… Xavier Vilajosana Guillen
- Re: [6tsch] minutes discussion models draft 1 Oct… Qin Wang
- Re: [6tsch] minutes discussion models draft 1 Oct… Qin Wang
- Re: [6tsch] minutes discussion models draft 1 Oct… Maria Rita PALATTELLA
- Re: [6tsch] minutes discussion models draft 1 Oct… Romascanu, Dan (Dan)
- Re: [6tsch] minutes discussion models draft 1 Oct… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [6tsch] minutes discussion models draft 1 Oct… Romascanu, Dan (Dan)
- Re: [6tsch] minutes discussion models draft 1 Oct… Maria Rita PALATTELLA