Re: [6tsch] minutes discussion models draft 1 October
Thomas Watteyne <watteyne@eecs.berkeley.edu> Tue, 01 October 2013 18:51 UTC
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From: Thomas Watteyne <watteyne@eecs.berkeley.edu>
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 11:51:06 -0700
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Subject: Re: [6tsch] minutes discussion models draft 1 October
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Xavi, Quick reply: - the term CoAP is in the title to follow RFC3444. - we decided to put some examples in this draft about different ways of using this data model (e.g. a node GETting the state of some other node in the network). We had some discussion about the difference between information and interaction models; we decided to have those as a different document to not loose any of the "generic" nature of this data model. Thomas On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 11:42 AM, Xavier Vilajosana Guillen < xvilajosana@eecs.berkeley.edu> wrote: > HI all, > > I have a question raising from the minutes (sorry I could not connect > today). > > If title of the draft is "6TiSCH CoAP data Model" this means that in the > future we will have "6TiSCH *foo *data Model". Is that the direction we > want? Data Model is the way to represent message content (i.e what goes in > the payload and is used by 6top commands). Why is this specific to CoAP? > > Another aspect is interaction models, i.e message flows which in that case > they are related to the capabilities of the transport mechanism. > > just thoughts.. Sorry if I really go back to something you already > discussed and it is really clear. > > X > > > > > On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Thomas Watteyne < > watteyne@eecs.berkeley.edu> wrote: > >> All, >> >> You will find the minutes of the discussion about the models draft from >> this morning at >> https://bitbucket.org/6tsch/meetings/wiki/131001_webex_models_draft (also >> copy-pasted below). >> >> Thomas >> >> --- >> >> Minutes Webex 1 October 2013, 6TiSCH group, models draft team >> >> Note: timestamps in PDT. >> Taking notes *(using Etherpad)* >> >> 1. Thomas Watteyne >> 2. Raghuram Sudhaakar >> >> Present *(alphabetically)* >> >> 1. Alaeddine Weslati >> 2. Dan Romascanu >> 3. Diego Dujovne >> 4. Pascal Thubert >> 5. Pouria Zand >> 6. Qin Wang >> 7. R. Nabati >> 8. Raghuram Sudhaakar >> 9. Thomas Watteyne >> >> Agenda >> >> - Present pre-draft ToC *[Raghuram/Pouria]* >> - Discuss ToC >> - Define contents of each section >> >> Minutes >> >> - *[08.05]* meeting starts. >> - *Raghuram* shares pre-draft through Webex >> - goals for today: define ToC, define contents of each section, >> pick title >> - Scope is to include data and interaction model for CoAP. At a >> later stage, extract information model as separate draft. >> - "6TiSCH data model" or "6TiSCH CoAP data model"? >> - *[Thomas]* personal opinion: have CoAP in title >> - *[Qin]* why interaction model on top of information model? >> - *[Raghuram]* we want to define message flows between PCE and nodes. >> Data model is exact definition of payload. We had rough consensus on using >> name-value pairs. Interaction model for CoAP or RSVP in future drafts. >> Interaction model provides abstract model of interaction between entities. >> - *[Qin]* RFC3444, interaction flows should be part of the data >> model? We should not conflict with RFC3444. >> - *[Thomas]* We may want to split the interaction from this (data >> model) draft. >> - *[Qin]* Data definition and coding is common part. For me, >> experience with different definitions. Don't want another terminology. >> - *[Dan]* Not extremely familiar with 6TiSCH but experience with data >> and information model. In the IETF, we have clear definitions about data >> and information model. RFC3444 accepted and used as reference. There are >> differences, i.e. interaction model. We need to stick with RFC3444 as close >> as possible. >> - *[Raghuram]* Goal of interaction model is try to extract >> information model at a later stage. CoAP is one of the transports we are >> using today, but we can use other protocol at a later stage. We can name it >> differently later "interaction method". >> - *[Dan]* If we are inventing a new name, it does not matter too >> much. We are looking at mapping different transports. >> - *[Raghuram]* Goal of interaction model is to extract the >> information model. >> - *[Raghuram]* Change to ToC: remove interaction? >> - *[Thomas]* Could be replaced by example scenarios. >> - *[Pascal]* We have identified interaction at L2, L3 and L5. We need >> to have discussion about the models. >> - *[Raghuram]* Conclusion: in ToC, new section 3.4 with "example >> interactions". Message formats would be moved up to 3.3, name-value pairs >> proposed. >> - *[Thomas]* Rough consensus? >> - *[Qin]* what's the different between management and informational >> resources? >> - *[Raghuram]* management resources are R/W, informational resources >> are R (e.g. DAGrank). >> - *[Thomas]* We could walk through ToC? >> - *[Raghuram]* >> - 3.1 naming convention for URI schemes. For example, root >> resource "6t". Includes naming convention for resources under root resource. >> - 3.2 resource of 6top we want to expose, i.e. management and >> informational resource. >> - 3.2.4 user installed resources, e.g. subscribe for particular >> implementation. >> - *[Raghuram]* Should we have extensible resources? >> - *[Thomas]* Yes. >> - *[Qin]* What the functional description of a resource? Related to >> not only management but also informational resources. Should we put every >> description attached to every resource? Looking at the content, I can >> imagine a resource list, with a description for each one. Suggestion is to >> put description just following the resource list. >> - *[Raghuram]* Fine with that. >> - *[Pouria]* Other change "functional description of resources" will >> fold into 3.2.1 and 3.2.2. >> - *[Raghuram]* Resource is just the URI, linked to particular 6top >> variable. Methods would fall under description of resource. >> - *[Qin]* Description of the MIB? >> - *[Raghuram]* End-user should be able to get a specific parameters. >> Returned as name-value pairs. If an entity wants the entire MIB, we will >> have a separate resource. >> - *[Thomas]* Mapping of 6top commands included? >> - *[Raghuram]* Yes. Mapping of table of 6top commands presented in >> previous calls. >> - *[Pouria]* In resource management, information that can be written >> by PCE, or commands to be executed. >> - *[Raghuram]* Everything that change the TSCH schedule falls under >> the management resource. >> - *[Raghuram]* Section 4 will be moved up. A message format will be >> attached to each URI. >> - *[Thomas]* Map the attributes from minimal draft and the commands >> from 6top draft. >> - *[Raghuram]* That is the plan. >> - *[Thomas]* What are extensions? >> - *[Raghuram]* We don't want to define the URI for every attribute, >> we want to enable people to install a new resource with a definition. >> - *[Raghuram]* In that context, what are profiles? >> - *[Thomas]* Profile is overarching modification to basic behavior: >> e.g. adding resources or adding method to existing resource. >> - *[Qin]* Understanding about profile: resource is fixed, behavior of >> resource can be configurable. >> - *[Pascal]* +1 it's very important we are able to do add to basic >> behavior. >> - *[Diego]* How can we describe a trigger, e.g. number of >> measurements to average over. >> - *[Thomas]* Do we have a solution? >> - *[Raghuram]* Yes, complex triggers are defined using well-known >> formats. RFC already defines how to encode several thresholds. Output would >> be sent on CoAP response or observe notification. One generic method for >> any kind of trigger. >> - *[Raghuram]* In profiles, modify or add behavior. Add is easy. >> Profiles as a way to define extra sets of complex triggers. Discovery. What >> we could express as profiles are extra complex triggers. >> - *[Thomas]* What are the next steps? >> - *[Raghuram]* Updated version of draft by next week to discuss >> progress. Invite contributors. >> - *[Thomas]* Name of draft? >> - *[Raghuram]* What about "6TiSCH CoAP data model". >> - *[Thomas]* We need to know editor to create repository. >> - *[Raghuram]* AOB? >> >> No other business raised. >> >> - *[09.05]* meeting ends. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> 6tsch mailing list >> 6tsch@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tsch >> >> >
- [6tsch] minutes discussion models draft 1 October Thomas Watteyne
- Re: [6tsch] minutes discussion models draft 1 Oct… Xavier Vilajosana Guillen
- Re: [6tsch] minutes discussion models draft 1 Oct… Thomas Watteyne
- Re: [6tsch] minutes discussion models draft 1 Oct… Qin Wang
- Re: [6tsch] minutes discussion models draft 1 Oct… Thomas Watteyne
- Re: [6tsch] minutes discussion models draft 1 Oct… Xavier Vilajosana Guillen
- Re: [6tsch] minutes discussion models draft 1 Oct… Qin Wang
- Re: [6tsch] minutes discussion models draft 1 Oct… Qin Wang
- Re: [6tsch] minutes discussion models draft 1 Oct… Maria Rita PALATTELLA
- Re: [6tsch] minutes discussion models draft 1 Oct… Romascanu, Dan (Dan)
- Re: [6tsch] minutes discussion models draft 1 Oct… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [6tsch] minutes discussion models draft 1 Oct… Romascanu, Dan (Dan)
- Re: [6tsch] minutes discussion models draft 1 Oct… Maria Rita PALATTELLA