Re: [6tsch] On the fly scheduling

[Qin Wang <[e-mail]>]

Hi Guillaume,

I would like to keep the algorithm (4) open, something like Objective
Function in RPL. Make sense?

Qin


On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 10:54 PM, Guillaume Gaillard <
[e-mail]> wrote:

> Hi Qin and all,
>
> I agree with your separation into two tools (pre-allocation vs
> post-allocation). When one wants to meet a new QoS requirement, it is
> possible:
> - (1) to over-provision cells in the schedule in order to be "sure" to
> meet the requirement (pre-allocation);
> - (2) to adapt the cell allocation to the variations of the network
> parameters (post-allocation);
> - (3) to do both things.
>
> When solution (2) is adopted, one should tolerate a time of degraded QoS,
> before the requirement is restored.
>
> I agree on your list of mechanisms a solution requires. Is the algorithm
> (4) (matching number of cell with QoS requirements) implementation-specific
> ?
>
> Regards,
>
> Guillaume Gaillard
>
> Orange Labs Meylan/CITI INRIA-INSA Lyon
> PhD student "SLA pour Réseaux de Capteurs Multi-Services"
> Advisors D. Barthel, F. Valois, F. Theoleyre
>
>
>
> 2013/10/4 Qin Wang <[e-mail]>
>
>> Hi Pascal and all,
>>
>> It is a interesting approach. I would like to put different approaches
>> above together.
>>
>> Objective: meet some QoS requirement.
>> Tool 1: pre-allocation, like what Pascal suggested, assign number of
>> cells to a bundle, and on/off them on demand.
>> Tool 2: post-allocation, like discussed in other emails in this thread,
>> adjust the number of cells in a bundle according to statistics information.
>>
>> In reality, I think a mote may use the combination of tool 1 and tool 2,
>> e.g. at the beginning, mote allocates some cells for a bundle, and use them
>> in the mode of on/off on demand; when statistics information show 2 more
>> cells needed, then mote is triggered to allocates 3 more cells for the
>> bundle, and then also use them in the mode of on/off on demand.
>>
>> If it is the case, a solution should include the the following parts:
>> (1) mechanism to create/delete softcells
>> (2) mechanism to provide statistics information
>> (3) mechanism to on/off cell on demand
>> (4) algorithm to determine how many cells needed for a QoS requirement
>> like (dataflow/burst-feature, delay-tolerance, {statistics info},  ...)
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> Qin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 5:30 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <
>> [e-mail]> wrote:
>>
>>>  Dear all:****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> Statistics and hysteresis can be costly in terms of memory and CPU, may
>>> not be the best strategy to address bursts of traffic in a stochastic IP
>>> network, and the strategy to derive the allocation from the past
>>> observation may be hard to determine in a particular case and even harder
>>> to generalize.****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> The needs of bandwidth may be very dynamic for instance in the case of
>>> alarms/alerts, or in the case of a brutal variation of monitored data.
>>> Changes in the network topology impacting the rank of a node within the DAG
>>> may also impact brutally its needs of bandwidth. So we cannot only rely on
>>> past observations and but also need to maintain some capabilities that rely
>>> on current needs that operate efficiently in terms of control and yet very
>>> dynamically to accept both brutal bursts of traffic and longer term
>>> variations.****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> Considering that we have ample room in a SlotFrame, a simple strategy,
>>> derived from traditional memory management, could be to augment the number
>>> of cells in a bundle each time it is saturated. As an image, GNU’s obstack
>>> seem to grow linearly one chunk at a time, but I know of chunk
>>> implementations that double the size of a dynamic chunk each time it is
>>> saturated and a geometrical growth may a better approach for us. ****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> In a bundle, a portion of the cells is always on. The rest can stay idle
>>> (no wake to send or listen) unless a previous cell indicates that there is
>>> more to come. If we agree on a strategy like this then we can start working
>>> out the details, in particular how handle lazy release or one-shot
>>> override, how we observe unallocated slots to make them candidate for
>>> allocation, etc...****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> As you see, even implementing such a simple strategy can already be
>>> quite some work in a constrained device. ****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> Cheers,****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> Pascal****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> *From:* [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] *On
>>> Behalf Of *Maria Rita PALATTELLA
>>> *Sent:* vendredi 4 octobre 2013 09:19
>>> *To:* Thomas Watteyne; 6TSCH
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [6tsch] On the fly scheduling****
>>>
>>>  ** **
>>>
>>> +1 for me too.****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> For sure, according to the specific requirements of the applications,
>>> different algorithms may be used for building the schedule. But the
>>> functionalities offers by 6top (i.e., collect statist. Info, send commands
>>> for scheduling cells) will be still the same (no matter which algorithm is
>>> used). ****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> The statistics needed could change because different algorithms may use
>>> different input as parameters.  So, we will have to include a set of
>>> statistic information, or anyway, make sure it is possible to extend them.
>>> ****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> Maria Rita****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> *From:* [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]<[e-mail]>]
>>> *On Behalf Of *Thomas Watteyne
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 03, 2013 10:11 PM
>>> *To:* 6TSCH
>>> *Subject:* Re: [6tsch] On the fly scheduling****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> That would indeed be clean.****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Qin Wang <[e-mail]> wrote:*
>>> ***
>>>
>>> Hi all,****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> +1 for the proposal. ****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> Regarding to how to approach, I agree with Thomas. There is an entity
>>> running on top of 6top, which reads queue information and other statistics
>>> information from 6top, sends instruction like create/delete softcells to
>>> 6top. I think we can use the design methodology of Objective Function in
>>> RPL, i.e. define the statistics information and the interface to/from 6top,
>>> and leave the specific algorithm open.****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> What do you think?****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> Qin ****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 12:45 AM, Thomas Watteyne <
>>> [e-mail]> wrote:****
>>>
>>> +1 for the proposal.****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> I believe it could be a very simple and powerful approach. Diego, would
>>> you agree that this can be considered a distributed mechanism sitting on
>>> top of 6top?****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> That is, 6top provides:****
>>>
>>>    - commands to modify the number of soft cells in a bundle****
>>>    - commands to retrieve usage statistics of the cells/bundles****
>>>
>>>  The way I see it, your proposal consists of an algorithm which feeds
>>> from the usage statistics and triggers changes in the number of soft cells
>>> in a bundle. Correct?****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> The questions to answer for now is whether 6top provides the right
>>> statistics.****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> Maria Rita, one big difference with TASA is that OTF scheduling is
>>> distributed.****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> Thomas****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Maria Rita PALATTELLA <
>>> [e-mail]> wrote:****
>>>
>>> Diego,( all)
>>>
>>> what you are suggesting (i.e., reserve cells based on queue size, delay)
>>> is actually the main idea behind TASA (Traffic Aware Scheduling Algorithm).
>>>
>>> TASA builds the schedule based on the local (number of pkt generated by
>>> the node) and global queue level ( i.e., local + pkt to be forwarded,
>>> generated by children). It gives priority to nodes with longer queues and
>>> it aims to reduce the latency for delivering the pkt. At the same time
>>> while building the schedule it minimizes the number of scheduled cells in
>>> order to reduce the network duty cycle.
>>> TASA is centralized and thus it assumes that the PCE has all the info
>>> needed for setting up the schedule. in other words, it knows the traffic
>>> generated by each nodes, and the paths followed by each pkt.
>>> With a "on the fly solution", we will not need to know all this info a
>>> priori. but we will use 6top monitoring functions and the control flows
>>> message for scheduling the cells.
>>>
>>> Btw, I agree with all the points raised up by Xavi.  We will have to
>>> address his questions.
>>>
>>> And I support Pascal's suggestions about how to deal with bundle.
>>>
>>> Maria Rita****
>>>  ------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From:* [e-mail] [[e-mail]] on behalf of
>>> Pascal Thubert (pthubert) [[e-mail]]
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 03, 2013 4:09 PM
>>> *To:* [e-mail]; Prof. Diego Dujovne****
>>>
>>>
>>> *Cc:* 6TSCH
>>> *Subject:* Re: [6tsch] On the fly scheduling****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> +1 too.****
>>>
>>>  ****
>>>
>>> I think that the queue size matters at enqueue but the latency is really
>>> what we care for at dequeue, that is how long did this device keep this
>>> message in queue (even if we are far from ****
>>>
>>> buffer bloat conditions in such a device). If one of the 2 conditions
>>> (size at enqueue, latency at dequeue) is reached then the bundle should be
>>> increased. ****
>>>
>>>  ****
>>>
>>> I agree with Xavi that we want to avoid changing the bundle size all the
>>> time. We discussed that with Qin and others earlier on the ML. One way of
>>> increasing the bundle dynamically at a very low cost (not even a
>>> hysteresis)  is to have it large amount of cells from the start but used
>>> like 10% by default (xmit/listen happens only once in 10 time slots). A bit
>>> in the frame indicates whether the next (normally unused) slot will indeed
>>> be used. The bit can be present in the data and acked in the ack. This can
>>> also implicitly be triggered for retries.****
>>>
>>>  ****
>>>
>>> Please keep us tuned!****
>>>
>>>  ****
>>>
>>> Cheers,****
>>>
>>>  ****
>>>
>>> PS Note that Cisco has IPR on chaining time slots and flagging whether
>>> the next is used or not. We already declared our IPR against the
>>> architecture draft and provided terms.****
>>>
>>>  ****
>>>
>>> Pascal****
>>>
>>>  ****
>>>
>>> *From:* [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] *On
>>> Behalf Of *Xavier Vilajosana Guillen
>>> *Sent:* jeudi 3 octobre 2013 15:46
>>> *To:* Prof. Diego Dujovne
>>> *Cc:* 6TSCH
>>> *Subject:* Re: [6tsch] On the fly scheduling****
>>>
>>>  ****
>>>
>>> Diego,
>>>
>>> +1****
>>>
>>> it seems to a me a very interesting idea to explore. Maybe we can start
>>> putting some rules of this mechanism on the table and prepare a simulation.
>>> I am completely in with that idea.****
>>>
>>> Some questions arise:****
>>>
>>> 1-how fast do you react to changes on the queue size to avoid hysteresis
>>> -- i.e how do you maintain certain stability in the schedule (so you don't
>>> start installing and removing links very often)****
>>>
>>> 2-how you map queue size (only one or if more than one queue) to actual
>>> link requirements****
>>>
>>> 3-how you recover from link collisions in case of multiple nodes
>>> schedule the same cells.****
>>>
>>> 4-how to decide to who (what neighbor) install more links according to
>>> queue size?****
>>>
>>>  ****
>>>
>>> cheers!
>>> Xavi****
>>>
>>>  ****
>>>
>>>  ****
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 3:23 AM, Prof. Diego Dujovne <
>>> [e-mail]> wrote:****
>>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>             I've been looking into the idea of "on the fly scheduling",
>>> presented on the Sept 27th webex call as "on-the-fly decentralized
>>> reservation".
>>> The basic mechanism would be based on analysing the queue size
>>> on a node and dynamically adapt the number of reserved
>>> cells to satisfy queue size, delay and/or power
>>> consumption thresholds.
>>>             This mechanism would work inside 6top, between pairs of
>>> nodes.
>>> As a first approach, it would be based on the minimal draft.
>>> What do you think on this starting point?
>>> I (gladly) receive comments to add or modify this proposal.
>>>
>>>                                      Diego
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> DIEGO DUJOVNE
>>> Académico Escuela de Ingeniería en Informática y Telecomunicaciones
>>> Facultad de Ingeniería UDP
>>> www.ingenieria.udp.cl
>>> (56 2) 676 8125
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 6tsch mailing list
>>> [e-mail]
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tsch****
>>>
>>>  ****
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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