Re: [6tsch] (my comments) Re: Security slides

[Rene Struik <[e-mail]>]

Hi Yoshi:

I believe there is really no reason to mention ZigBee here (or advertise
PANA for that matter [it smells too much like predisposition as to
solution directions, without knowing how it fits with requirements [the
whole point of my comments so far]). Focus should be on how to trigger
802.15.4e TSCH behavior... So, I would argue to remove all this (hence,
me editing slides). If you want to mention something it should be a
current TSCH users, such as w/HART or ISA.

Best regards, Rene


[YO] Sorry for confusion. ZigBee IP is mentioned because it is an
existing wireless mesh standard that uses higher-layer (IP-layer and
above) key management protocols to manage 802.15.4 link layer keys, and
6TSCH is also looking at higher-layer key management protocols as well.
Having said that I would rather add the following bullet to make this
point clear:

“- ZIP uses higher-layer key management protocol (PANA) to distribute
the network key.”



On 7/26/2013 12:08 AM, [e-mail] wrote:
>
> Hi Rene,
>
> Thank you very much for your comments. Please see my response below.
>
> *From:*Rene Struik [mailto:[e-mail]]
> *Sent:* Friday, July 26, 2013 3:44 AM
> *To:* ohba yoshihiro(大場義洋○ＲＤＣ□ＮＳＬ)
> *Cc:* [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
> *Subject:* (my comments) Re: [6tsch] Security slides
>
> Hi Yoshi:
>
> I am not sure why ZigBee IP is mentioned on the slides, since ZigBee
> does not use TSCH. If mentioning a potential "user" at all, it seems
> more appropriate to mention w/HART or ISA SP100. (It is quite likely
> not needed, though, since covered elsewhere on general overview slides.)
>
> [YO] Sorry for confusion. ZigBee IP is mentioned because it is an
> existing wireless mesh standard that uses higher-layer (IP-layer and
> above) key management protocols to manage 802.15.4 link layer keys,
> and 6TSCH is also looking at higher-layer key management protocols as
> well. Having said that I would rather add the following bullet to make
> this point clear:
>
> “- ZIP uses higher-layer key management protocol (PANA) to distribute
> the network key.”
>
> Why not using the 802.15.4e specification as basis for security
> slides? Section 5.1.2.6 describes PAN formation. It would also help to
> have a few words on "basic" security features of 802.15.4, so that
> people get an idea what is in there.
>
> [YO] We can add a few words on "basic" security features of 802.15.4
> based on your edits. BTW, 802.15.4e TSCH security is also mentioned in
> the original slides.
>
> 802.15.4e nodes use time-scheduling info to determine when to
> communicate (time scheduling) and on which communication channel
> (channel hopping). The 802.15.4e specification describes how this is
> done, based on available TSCH parameters, but does not describe how
> these TSCH parameters are set. That is where some of the work comes
> in, also for security.
>
> [YO] Your editing of Background (1/2) is covered by earlier
> presentations and we don’t need to reiterate it.
>
> I edited the slides you sent out for review, so as to reflect the
> above (please see attached). BTW - I did not delve into PAN formation
> as hinted at in 802.15.4e.
>
> As you can see, I suggest partitioning security work in two stages,
> where the second stage is conditional on rechartering. More
> importantly, though, I feel one needs to focus on understanding the
> space (and the "hooks" in 802.15.4e) first, before putting "solutions"
> on the table. In other words, first define the problem on which these
> solutions should be based.
>
> [YO] If we want to **explicitly** mention “two-stage” approach, it is
> better to change the security part of the text in the current charter
> accordingly. Your edits goes beyond the current charter text, which
> seems to contradict with your previous comment “I suggest to leave the
> current language in the draft charter as is right now.” I would rather
> stop at mentioning requirements & framework in the slides, and
> verbally mention two-stage approach.
>
>
> One interesting problem would be how to use 802.15.4e security, after
> a joining operation, but prior to getting a reliable Absolute Slot
> Number..
>
> [YO] I am interested in knowing what exactly the problem you mention is.
>
> We can discuss more on the call tomorrow.
>
> [YO] I won’t be able to attend the call since I will be traveling to
> Berlin.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Yoshihiro Ohba
>
>
> Best regards, Rene
>
> On 7/24/2013 6:05 PM, [e-mail]
> <mailto:[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>     Security slides are available at:
>
>     https://bitbucket.org/6tsch/meetings/src/master/130730_ietf-87_berlin/3f_draft-ohba-6tsch-security.pptx
>
>     Please review and send your feedback.
>
>     Regards,
>
>     Yoshihiro Ohba
>
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>
>     6tsch mailing list
>
>     [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tsch
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> email: [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]> | Skype: rstruik
> cell: [phone] | US: [phone]


-- 
email: [e-mail] | Skype: rstruik
cell: [phone] | US: [phone]