Re: [6tsch] the first 30min
Thomas Watteyne <watteyne@eecs.berkeley.edu> Thu, 18 July 2013 12:51 UTC
Return-Path: <twatteyne@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: 6tsch@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: 6tsch@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C08B21F8D6D for <6tsch@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 05:51:08 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.915
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.915 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.062, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uR40McyNvSgY for <6tsch@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 05:51:07 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pa0-x22c.google.com (mail-pa0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22c]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3B0821E80E7 for <6tsch@ietf.org>; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 05:50:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pa0-f44.google.com with SMTP id lj1so3171778pab.31 for <6tsch@ietf.org>; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 05:50:28 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=98seYdFsa1z7LxYlwfeJ0di8CZq1Xy7nXm8ZsyaspH8=; b=s4Nvg44+TwSxkV36chdz+ZMvsEOx0IsGDJQFJDWzKhe9khd9oGDnyfX6DNDxiovl+o iQmK1PA0h185ZsTfbrdDslL2D6HvKt2CD1fp1f9qoDXc9HeHgzSWVl8IppRddsvwmX26 ZVDUjXy2LiBe2UuEdOdjYQ8TBCoGy4IgOTmOIC4AAUuFMRCmR03m9ULpP+VQytdvuVkx ZjtzhfvUrVRrMYrRcBS2MtiHDfxb/uR+DTFvitAMUPKgHi985b0pwITRgNrZgusfFUMI sF6ZopA/iFXeCasBdf+xaChZe6vg0pkrbATgjtDN59doWoaD5yWZE/PvFGo8/VVmQ07l xa8w==
X-Received: by 10.66.120.136 with SMTP id lc8mr13021881pab.182.1374151828673; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 05:50:28 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: twatteyne@gmail.com
Received: by 10.66.147.228 with HTTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 05:50:07 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <E045AECD98228444A58C61C200AE1BD84137A1C2@xmb-rcd-x01.cisco.com>
References: <CADJ9OA-b0ymStTstV2cv0vdGJGyy8HTx6RdXxVDkMTZcudz3xw@mail.gmail.com> <E045AECD98228444A58C61C200AE1BD84137A1C2@xmb-rcd-x01.cisco.com>
From: Thomas Watteyne <watteyne@eecs.berkeley.edu>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 14:50:07 +0200
X-Google-Sender-Auth: c4RadN_0aqjZfKKYLnKXzM7FWCI
Message-ID: <CADJ9OA-Rb2Mtj9mmJ-qrEXUFOi-hHJiGdXd-2M5QpSO-oEARyg@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="e89a8ffbac2b9d9d8c04e1c8a73c"
Cc: Marc Blanchet <marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca>, 6TSCH <6tsch@ietf.org>, "Ted Lemon (ted.lemon@nominum.com)" <ted.lemon@nominum.com>
Subject: Re: [6tsch] the first 30min
X-BeenThere: 6tsch@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discuss link layer model for Deterministic IPv6 over the TSCH mode of IEEE 802.15.4e, and impacts on RPL and 6LoWPAN such as resource allocation" <6tsch.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/6tsch>, <mailto:6tsch-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/6tsch>
List-Post: <mailto:6tsch@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:6tsch-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tsch>, <mailto:6tsch-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 12:51:08 -0000
Pascal, Absolutely, I saw your attached e-mail, and I agree we're very close. I was going through it when preparing this e-mail, after realizing we will probably be moving thing around between Maria Rita's, Xavi's and my own slides. I agree with your modification to the conclusion and the story you're describing. Thomas On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 2:26 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) < pthubert@cisco.com> wrote: > Hello Thomas**** > > ** ** > > I’d discuss the nutshells rather than the content (which is close to > perfect; ) And I’d argue that the nutshells are also the conclusions.**** > > Did you see the thread attached? We’re mostly in line but it seems you > went through it all again. I understand your logic, this is a nice story.* > *** > > My 2 centimes:**** > > ** ** > > - [5min] draft-watteyne-6tsch-tsch-lln-context-02 [Thomas]**** > - *In a nutshell: IEEE802.15.4e TSCH is Deterministic Wirelessstandard > ***** > > I expect that at this point the crowd understands that deterministic is a > new and immensely powerful complex, enabling control loops and this key to > OT/automation networks, and that we can actually achieve it on wireless.** > ** > > - [10min] what is IEEE802.15.4e TSCH? [Maria Rita]**** > - *In a nutshell: IEEE802.15.4e TSCH is a proven technology which > opens up IT/OT/automation convergence if coupled with IPv6***** > > I expect that at this point the crowd has a sense of a huge value for the > real world, even for everyday life. If ùy nutshell is Maria Rita’s > conclusion then we have a great transition for Xavi (see my attached mail) > **** > > - [15min] what is missing? [Xavi]**** > - *In a nutshell: Some Blocks but mostly Glue are missing so 6TSCH > is doable***** > > By then people must also be convinced that there is work to be done, > understand what the scope of that work is, and that it is achievable within > IETF classical operations.**** > > ** ** > > Works for you? **** > > ** ** > > Also, do you mind copyting the list or at least the other speakers and Ted > and Marc?**** > > ** ** > > Pascal**** > > ** ** > > *From:* twatteyne@gmail.com [mailto:twatteyne@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Thomas > Watteyne > *Sent:* jeudi 18 juillet 2013 14:08 > *To:* Maria Rita Palattella; Xavi Vilajosana; Pascal Thubert (pthubert) > *Subject:* BoF: the first 30min**** > > ** ** > > Xavi, Maria Rita,**** > > ** ** > > [CC'ing Pascal]**** > > ** ** > > The first 30min at the BoF will be ours to convey the following messages:* > *** > > - IEEE802.15.4e TSCH is a powerful new standard**** > - it's a proven technology**** > - we want to fit an IETF IPv6 upper stack onto it**** > - but pieces are missing**** > > We need to coordinate closely to avoid (1) that we repeat things and (2) > that we follow the same stream of thought. From the slides that are now in > the repo, I can see that we all are hesitant a bit about who says what.*** > * > > ** ** > > This e-mail is the start of the discussion we will have later today in our > "private" webex.**** > > ** ** > > I believe that, high-level, we could separate our speaking time as follows: > **** > > - [5min] draft-watteyne-6tsch-tsch-lln-context-02 [Thomas]**** > > > - *In a nutshell: IEEE802.15.4e TSCH is new L2 standard***** > - what we are presenting is the first draft generated by the group, > and which highlights what IEEE802.15.4e TSCH is and what is missing. It's > the document we used early on in the definition of the problem statement > within the 6TSCH group, and we therefore present early on in the BoF. > **** > - IEEE802.15.4 is a double standard (PHY and MAC) for low-power > wireless radio. It's a very well-known standard, used at the base of the > 6LoWPAN, CORE and ROLL WGs.**** > - IEEE802.15.4e is an amendment to its MAC protocol**** > - one of the modes is Timeslotted Channel Hopping (TSCH)**** > - TSCH allows low-power through synchronization, high reliability > through channel hopping**** > - nodes in the network follow the TSCH communication schedule**** > - published IEEE standard, April 2012**** > > > - [10min] what is IEEE802.15.4e TSCH? [Maria Rita]**** > > > - *In a nutshell: IEEE802.15.4e TSCH is a proven technology which > opens up new applications***** > - playing with the schedule allows for a clean trade-off between > throughout, latency, redundancy and power consumption**** > - allows for a high level of determinism and traffic engineering**** > - opens up to new range of applications which require high > reliability and low-power:**** > > > - ** ** > - Control loops in a wireless process control network, in which > high reliability and a fully deterministic behavior are required. > **** > - Umbrella networks transporting data from different independent > clients, and for which an operator needs flow isolation and traffic shaping. > **** > - Energy harvesting networks, which require an extremely low and > predictable average power consumption.**** > > > - an analogy of our work can be found in WirelessHART and ISA100.11a, > although these standards don't use IETF building blocks. Those standards > use a variant of Timeslotted Channel Hopping, but not IEEE802.15.4e. > **** > - we want to define how to run IPv6 on top of IEEE802.15.4e TSCH**** > - the IEEE802.15.4e standard only defines what nodes do once they > have a schedule, NOT how to build and maintain that schedule**** > > > - [15min] what is missing? [Xavi]**** > > > - *In a nutshell: blocks are missing***** > - some building blocks are missing to fit an IPv6 stack onto > IEEE802.15.4e TSCH. Most of them already exist. We want to provide > guidelines on how to glue them together.**** > - the main blocks are:**** > > > - (per draft-watteyne-6tsch-tsch-lln-context-02) guidelines to fully > define the behavior of the network:**** > > > - ** ** > - network formation**** > - election of timing parents needed for synchronization**** > - network maintenance**** > - security (mostly key management)**** > > > - building and maintaining the communication schedule:**** > > > - "the orchestra director"**** > - Both centralized and distributed approaches are > contemplating**** > - protocols to coordinate nodes and distribute information**** > > > - multi-hop dataflow**** > > > - integration with RPL (including feeding back metrics)**** > - packet switching and tunneling**** > > > - QoS and TE (includes different flow/packet priorities, traffic > classes, and mapping to layer 2 resources)**** > - ND and backbone architecture**** > > Thoughts? I ca go over this during the webex later today.**** > > ** ** > > Thomas**** >
- Re: [6tsch] the first 30min Thomas Watteyne
- Re: [6tsch] the first 30min Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [6tsch] the first 30min Qin Wang
- Re: [6tsch] the first 30min Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [6tsch] the first 30min Qin Wang
- Re: [6tsch] the first 30min Maria Rita PALATTELLA
- Re: [6tsch] the first 30min Pascal Thubert (pthubert)