Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilities (was Re: Guestroom Network not under NOC Control)
Ole Jacobsen <ole@cisco.com> Wed, 30 July 2008 15:46 UTC
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Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 08:43:13 -0700
From: Ole Jacobsen <ole@cisco.com>
To: Dave Crocker <dcrocker@bbiw.net>
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Subject: Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilities (was Re: Guestroom Network not under NOC Control)
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On Wed, 30 Jul 2008, Dave Crocker wrote: > Ole, > > This script that you and I are following has become a cliche. To break out > of it and conduct serious discussion, we need to think harder about underlying > assumptions, as well as treating asserted data with some skepticism. > > > Ole Jacobsen wrote: > > De-coupling the two issues is a fine idea on paper and in my experience > > almost unworkable in practice. Hosts DO want some > > say in where we meet and they DO want to be near a place where > > they can provide "local" support (if only from a remote office). > > > 1. You are quite wrong. Most conferences, association meetings, and > the like, choose a venue independent of sponsorship. Hence > sponsorship is about sponsoring, not about doing the grunt work. > Long ago, we developed a meeting model based on some coupling of > roles and services, which are so entrenched any attempt to > suggest changing it gets responses that are firm, reflexive and > not supported by the facts. Responding rigidly and defensively > is not a good way to pursue necessary changes. It is a good way > to ensure that persistent problems persist. Actually, it is you that is wrong. We HAVE a model which DOES allow a so-called turn-key solution where the sponsor(s) have no other role than paying the bills and do not have any say in the selection of venue. The FACT is that VERY few sponsors opt for this model, preferring instead the other model. We could of course completely OUTLAW this option, and insist on only offering the turnkey solution. THAT is a discussion worth having, as is the idea of a fund with enough money in it to fund the IETF forever, i.e., ask for a reasonably large chunk of cash from a number of sources ONCE to get the fund going. Ole (speaking for myself and not the IAOC). _______________________________________________ 72attendees mailing list 72attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/72attendees
- [72attendees] Guestroom Network not under NOC Con… LANGE Andrew
- Re: [72attendees] Guestroom Network not under NOC… Balazs Lengyel
- [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilities (w… Soininen Jonne (NSN FI/Espoo)
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… GOLDMAN, STUART O (STUART)
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Thomas Walsh
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Kurt Erik Lindqvist
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Kurt Erik Lindqvist
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Bill Fenner
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Eric Gray
- Re: [72attendees] Guestroom Network not under NOC… Paul Hoffman
- [72attendees] Found - YubiKey Spencer Dawkins
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Lloyd Wood
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Kurt Erik Lindqvist
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Thomas Froment
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Dale Worley
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Spencer Dawkins
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Soininen Jonne (NSN FI/Espoo)
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Kurt Erik Lindqvist
- [72attendees] Moving to social event gregory.cauchie
- Re: [72attendees] Moving to social event Francis Dupont
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Ed Jankiewicz
- Re: [72attendees] Moving to social event Romascanu, Dan (Dan)
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Livingood, Jason
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Dave Crocker
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Rosen, Brian
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Derek Atkins
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Christopher LILJENSTOLPE
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Dave Crocker
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Dave Crocker
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Dave Crocker
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Dave Crocker
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Dave Crocker
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Dave Crocker
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Soininen Jonne (NSN FI/Espoo)
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [72attendees] Clarifying Host Responsibilitie… Randall Gellens
- [72attendees] Meeting arrangements and costs (was… John C Klensin
- Re: [72attendees] Meeting arrangements and costs … Kurt Erik Lindqvist
- Re: [72attendees] Meeting arrangements and costs … John C Klensin
- Re: [72attendees] Meeting arrangements and costs Dave Crocker
- Re: [72attendees] Meeting arrangements and costs … Kurt Erik Lindqvist
- Re: [72attendees] Meeting arrangements and costs … Dale Worley
- Re: [72attendees] Meeting arrangements and costs … Mary Barnes
- Re: [72attendees] Meeting arrangements and costs … Ted Lemon
- Re: [72attendees] Meeting arrangements and costs … Ole Jacobsen
- Re: [72attendees] Meeting arrangements and costs Joel Jaeggli
- Re: [72attendees] Meeting arrangements and costs … Ondřej Surý
- Re: [72attendees] Meeting arrangements and costs … Patrik Fältström
- Re: [72attendees] Meeting arrangements and costs … Ondřej Surý