Re: [73attendees] Is USA qualified for2.3ofdraft-palet-ietf-meeting-venue-selection-criteria?

[Joel Jaeggli <[e-mail]>]

Yi Zhao wrote:
> Based on my knowledge, for Chinese citizens there is no any problem to
> get the visa to other countries except US.

I know for a fact that several of your countrymen have had trouble
obtaining visas for other recent IETF destinations.

>  
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *From:* [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]] *On Behalf Of *David Quigley
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 18, 2008 1:56 PM
> *To:* Nicholas Weaver
> *Cc:* [e-mail]; [e-mail]
> *Subject:* Re: [73attendees] Is USA qualified
> for2.3ofdraft-palet-ietf-meeting-venue-selection-criteria?
> 
>  
> 
> Disclaimer: What I say here are my words and don't represent the views
> of my employer.
> 
>  
> 
> From what I see here the issues are mostly experienced by Chinese
> citizens. Most of the other countries have reciprocal visa agreements
> with the US. China however doesn't have that agreement with Ireland,
> Sweden, Japan, or the US. Were there similar problems with gaining
> entrance into Ireland? Will there be similar issues with gaining
> entrance into Sweden or Japan?
> 
>  
> 
> Dave
> 
> On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 1:40 PM, Nicholas Weaver
> <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
> 
> 
> On Nov 18, 2008, at 10:53 AM, Scott Brim wrote:
> 
>     Excerpts from Randy Bush on Tue, Nov 18, 2008 10:39:57AM -0600:
> 
>     [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]> wrote:
> 
>     I believe our US government would like to grant visas to as many
>     people as they can. However, if anyone wants to attend a meeting in
>     the US is granted a visa to come here, then I can imagine there will
>     be 100 million visa applications for the IETF meeting in CA next year
>     alone.
> 
> 
>     thank you for demonstrating so clearly the jingoistic prejudice at the
>     us government level that should preclude ietf being held in the united
>     states.
> 
> 
>     How would you solve the problem?  Let 100 million people in on false
>     pretenses?  I'm not going to defend the behavior of the US government,
>     but I want you to admit that US immigration has a difficult problem.
>     Slinging labels around doesn't help.
> 
>  
> 
> Remember, the IETF is NOT special.  There are tens of thousands of
> conferences, and they are all pretty much need-to-be-treated equal.  If
> the US gave effectively carte blanch to conference attendees, you would
> have no immigration controls, period, as this would be a big enough
> loophole to fly an A380 through.
> 
> The Visa issue in the US is serious, but how many people are really
> affected by this?
> 
> We need hard data, because the notion of simply "not holding IETF
> meetings in a terrorist country" is not effective.
> 
> And if you want to do Visa issues as a criteria, you can strongly argue
> that all IETF meeting SHOULD be in a country where a visa is not
> required for travel for EU, US, Japanese, and Canadian citizens.
> 
> 
> 
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>  
> 
> 
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