Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar BoF: ip traceback)
Stephan Wenger <stewe@stewe.org> Wed, 31 March 2010 04:02 UTC
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Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 21:02:40 -0700
From: Stephan Wenger <stewe@stewe.org>
To: thompson@ieee.org, Melinda Shore <shore@arsc.edu>
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Cc: 77attendees@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar BoF: ip traceback)
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Hi Geoff, Not sure I buy this argument. And I'm a fairly antitrust-sensible person. In fact, I would argue quite the opposite: "A bar BOF is not an organized IETF activity, even if occasionally IETF logistical resources are being used for convenience. The IETF does not take any responsibility for non-IETF activities. Bar-BOF participants are on their own to ensure that their behavior is in conformance with the law, including antitrust law." My hunch is that it all boils down to the question whether the IETF, as an organization, wishes to see the bar BOF concept as an IETF hosted/sponsored event, or just a bunch of engineers that happen to be co-located at an IETF meeting get together to do something outside of the IETF's organized context. My understanding is that the historical precedence clearly is the latter. Even the TAO recognizes a bar BOF not as an IETF activity, but lists it under "Other General Things", along with important subjects such as hallway discussions, and the advise to never get between a hungry IETFer and his/her cookies. Just because, recently, name and spirit of a bar BOF have been stretched to the point of failure (to avoid the term "violated"), they have not become an organized IETF activity. Stephan P.s.: what's next? The Scotch BOF requiring Blue Sheets? On 3.30.2010 20:21 , "Geoff Thompson" <thompson@ieee.org> wrote: > On 3/30/10 4:39 PM, Melinda Shore wrote: >> On Mar 30, 2010, at 3:16 PM, Marshall Eubanks wrote: >>> They are subject to the Note Well. That is certainly a rule >> >> Why? > In an attempt to keep the IETF in control of things that could be > construed to have the appearance of anti-trust activities. > Also, to establish that the IETF has been diligent in keeping the folks > at the IETF within the straight and narrow of legally permitted > activities for competitors. > > Meetings where competitors make agreements to cooperate are legally suspect. > Standards organizations have to exercise care to protect themselves and > their participants. > > Geoff >> >> Melinda >> >> _______________________________________________ >> 77attendees mailing list >> 77attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/77attendees >> > _______________________________________________ > 77attendees mailing list > 77attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/77attendees
- [77attendees] Bar BoF: ip traceback Hiroaki Hazeyama
- Re: [77attendees] Bar BoF: ip traceback Hiroaki Hazeyama
- Re: [77attendees] Bar BoF: ip traceback Hiroaki Hazeyama
- Re: [77attendees] Bar BoF: ip traceback Jari Arkko
- Re: [77attendees] Bar BoF: ip traceback Yoav Nir
- Re: [77attendees] Bar BoF: ip traceback Jari Arkko
- Re: [77attendees] Bar BoF: ip traceback Hiroaki Hazeyama
- Re: [77attendees] Bar BoF: ip traceback Yoav Nir
- Re: [77attendees] Bar BoF: ip traceback Chris Morrow
- Re: [77attendees] Bar BoF: ip traceback Yoav Nir
- Re: [77attendees] Bar BoF: ip traceback Chris Morrow
- Re: [77attendees] Bar BoF: ip traceback Ingemar Johansson S
- Re: [77attendees] Bar BoF: ip traceback Spencer Dawkins
- Re: [77attendees] Bar BoF: ip traceback Thomson, Martin
- Re: [77attendees] Bar BoF: ip traceback Spencer Dawkins
- [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar BoF: … Jari Arkko
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Spencer Dawkins
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Marc Blanchet
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… J.D. Falk
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Carl Williams
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Fred Baker
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Fred Baker
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Lars Eggert
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Klaas Wierenga
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Scott Brim
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… joel.jaeggli
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Jari Arkko
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Melinda Shore
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Joerg Ott
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Lars Eggert
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Lars Eggert
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Ingemar Johansson S
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Thomas Hardjono
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Dan Wing
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Randy Bush
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Eliot Lear
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Randy Bush
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Jeffrey Hutzelman
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Randy Bush
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Michael StJohns
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Scott Brim
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [77attendees] terminal room Tony Hansen
- Re: [77attendees] terminal room Al Morton
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (FCFS break out… Tony Hansen
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Spencer Dawkins
- Re: [77attendees] terminal room Hui Deng
- Re: [77attendees] terminal room David Morris
- Re: [77attendees] terminal room Tom Yu
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… joel.jaeggli
- Re: [77attendees] terminal room Ed Jankiewicz
- Re: [77attendees] terminal room Richard Barnes
- Re: [77attendees] terminal room Ted Lemon
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Scott Brim
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Richard Barnes
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Stephan Wenger
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Melinda Shore
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… joel.jaeggli
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Randy Bush
- Re: [77attendees] terminal room David Borman
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Melinda Shore
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Geoff Thompson
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Stephan Wenger
- Re: [77attendees] terminal room Joerg Ott
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Joerg Ott
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Ingemar Johansson S
- Re: [77attendees] terminal room Dearlove, Christopher (UK)
- Re: [77attendees] terminal room Thomas Heide Clausen
- Re: [77attendees] terminal room Ingemar Johansson S
- Re: [77attendees] terminal room Randy Bush
- [77attendees] Note well? [Ad hoc meetings (Was: R… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [77attendees] terminal room Yao Jiankang
- Re: [77attendees] terminal room Dmitry Burkov
- Re: [77attendees] terminal room Samuel Weiler
- Re: [77attendees] terminal room joel.jaeggli
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Jari Arkko
- Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar B… Jeffrey Hutzelman