From: Yoav Nir <ynir@checkpoint.com>
To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 08:41:58 +0300
Thread-Topic: [81attendees] diverse meeting locations (was: are we getting
 complacent? Good job!)
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Cc: "81attendees@ietf.org" <81attendees@ietf.org>,
 Dae Young KIM <dykim@cnu.ac.kr>
Subject: Re: [81attendees] diverse meeting locations (was: are we getting
 complacent? Good job!)
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On Aug 9, 2011, at 8:36 AM, Ted Lemon wrote:

On Aug 9, 2011, at 1:30 AM, Yoav Nir wrote:
8 people out of 50 raise their hand. How is the chair or AD to know that 40=
 of those 50 are just tourists?  It looks like the group has said "meh".

"Who has read the draft?"

four hands go up

"Out of those, who thinks this is useful work?"

four hands go up

"Who thinks this is a bad idea?"

no hands go up

That, unfortunately, is what consensus sometimes looks like.   You have to =
gauge who's actually participating before you start looking for consensus.

Or from a session in QC:

"Who has read the draft?"

Four hands go up

"Who has read the draft, and is NOT a co-author or WG chair?"

No hands go up

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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:=
 space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br><div><div>On Aug 9, 20=
11, at 8:36 AM, Ted Lemon wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newlin=
e"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-n=
bsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div>On Aug =
9, 2011, at 1:30 AM, Yoav Nir wrote:</div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span c=
lass=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; l=
etter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit=
-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows:=
 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-bord=
er-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit=
-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium;=
 ">8 people out of 50 raise their hand. How is the chair or AD to know that=
 40 of those 50 are just tourists? &nbsp;It looks like the group has said "=
meh".</span></blockquote></div><br><div>"Who has read the draft?"</div><div=
><br></div><div>four hands go up</div><div><br></div><div>"Out of those, wh=
o thinks this is useful work?"</div><div><br></div><div>four hands go up</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>"Who thinks this is a bad idea?"</div><div><br></div=
><div>no hands go up</div><div><br></div><div>That, unfortunately, is what =
consensus sometimes looks like. &nbsp; You have to gauge who's actually par=
ticipating before you start looking for consensus.</div></div></blockquote>=
</div><br><div>Or from a session in QC:</div><div><br></div><div>"Who has r=
ead the draft?"</div><div><br></div><div>Four hands go up</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>"Who has read the draft, and is NOT a co-author or WG chair?"</div>=
<div><br></div><div>No hands go up</div></body></html>=

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