Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review)

"David Lake (dlake)" <> Wed, 21 August 2013 19:18 UTC

Return-Path: <>
Received: from localhost (localhost []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A57321F9EE9 for <>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:18:11 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -10.599
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8]
Received: from ([]) by localhost ( []) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5RAkHt06Nk82 for <>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:18:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ( []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B06A21F9BD0 for <>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:18:06 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple;;; l=5391; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1377112686; x=1378322286; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=dQ2Wj3G69yRTGJPOfLP5wUGuff/ccuGBU9VDmyP10m8=; b=WXDkzTnrLsb5+dMrJESQELR0SqUjj84pBfNdrZ2jNnii3Ro6dpCq85+t MwJaOfi20XO14GA/izmLhBkMkd2XFIhjnaAPDxbDqnyqiQsvRp2pgbOUT q51JBbzMopqiamufijZhkAGodClUHhrgoHOHsH/65ouPYIHsuCKg9WqM0 k=;
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,929,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="249938662"
Received: from ([]) by with ESMTP; 21 Aug 2013 19:18:05 +0000
Received: from ( []) by (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7LJI4Jq009175 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 21 Aug 2013 19:18:05 GMT
Received: from ([]) by ([]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 14:18:04 -0500
From: "David Lake (dlake)" <>
To: "Carlos M. Martinez" <>
Thread-Topic: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review)
Thread-Index: AQHOnprFbaj1kP8Ba0KjhGgHYMSK9pmf+IuQgABb7oD//6xbsA==
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 19:18:04 +0000
Message-ID: <>
References: <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>
In-Reply-To: <>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
x-originating-ip: []
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
Cc: 87 Attendees <>, joel jaeggli <>, Brian Dickson <>, "" <>
Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review)
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: <>
List-Unsubscribe: <>, <>
List-Archive: <>
List-Post: <>
List-Help: <>
List-Subscribe: <>, <>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 19:18:11 -0000

If you can break the perceived need down to a manageable request that is attainable, that's fine. 

But my SUSPICION is that there are so many variables here that even getting to any sort of consensus of what we are asking to be provided is going to be very, very difficult. 

I'm not saying that it wouldn't be very useful - quite the opposite.   For every out-of-country IETF meeting I've been to, I've ended up spending hours researching and trying to obtain a SIM card (sometimes two) before I travel.  It is far from easy, and yes, it would be LOVELY for that to be provided.

When you have to pick through terms and conditions such as I had from one country's operator telling me that my iPhone was classified as a "Smart Device" and not a "Phone" and therefore had to go on their extraordinarily high monthly plan as opposed to my Android tablet which is still a "Phone" in their eyes (then they have the audacity to charge for INCOMING calls even from people trying to sell me things I don't want !), it is going to be a huge job for someone to deal with...


-----Original Message-----
From: Carlos M. Martinez [] 
Sent: 21 August 2013 11:48
To: David Lake (dlake)
Cc: Brian Dickson; 87 Attendees; joel jaeggli;
Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review)


the problem with the all the 'but' cases is that they sometimes cannot all be addressed. However, this is not a valid reason to not address the problem/request at all.

"Since we cannot accomodate every_single_particular_possible_request, we decided to do nothing" just doesn't cut it. On the other hand, accomodating 80% percents of the perceived needs does cut it.


On 8/21/13 3:42 PM, David Lake (dlake) wrote:
> But, but, but....
> The problem is that often times it's not AT the meeting that I want the SIM, especially for data.
> It's BEFORE the meeting - for example from the minute the wheels touch the ground or the train crosses the border.   So, ideally, I'd want a pre-activated SIM that I can move into my phone/tablet one or two days before the meeting starts.  That means sending me the SIM in advance of me travelling.
> THEN we hit Joel's point:
> "different nations, have different identity/registration requirements for cellular telephones and the sale of such items is regulated"   
> Even where it is legal to post a SIM, you can hit problems; having just bought a very cheap SpeakOut Wireless SIM for Canada ( which was not activated, I've discovered that that particular MVNO has no international roaming agreements, so I can't actually make the thing work or stick any money on it until I arrive IN Canada.   So my plan of giving people my number before I travelled is scuppered - until I activate it, I won't know the number and I can't activate it until...  you get the point.
> Whilst the desire is admirable, I suspect that the number of permutations are too great to expect a volunteer force to handle.
> David
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 
> [] On Behalf Of Carlos M. Martinez
> Sent: 21 August 2013 11:18
> To: Brian Dickson
> Cc: 87 Attendees; joel jaeggli;
> Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] 
> IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review)
> +1, the point, restated, would be to ensure that during IETF events,
> attendeees who may need/want them can buy SIM cards at reasonable prices, and including obtaining some help in activating them taking into account that this process can be highly location-dependant and may imply languages other than English.
> If this results in one, two, or eight booths, or in a single wiki page with pointers to a nearby store (store that /should/ be contacted previously IMO), its all fine.
> regards
> ~Carlos
> On 8/21/13 2:44 PM, Brian Dickson wrote:
>> On Aug 21, 2013, at 1:26 PM, joel jaeggli <> wrote:
>>>  it will frequently be more complex then first glance affords.
>> Individual attendees may or may not know well in advance of a meeting that they will for sure attend.
>> However, the IETF knows it will, and where and when for years in advance.
>> Having IETF staff research these thing scales better and affords more lead time - even if the only result is stuff on a meeting wiki page. It still benefits all attendees, and may provide helpful info in the attendees' language(s).
>> If on-site SIM sales and/or re-form-factoring also happens, great. But even without this, the advance investigation is still very useful.
>> Brian
>> _______________________________________________
>> 87attendees mailing list
> _______________________________________________
> 87attendees mailing list
> _______________________________________________
> 87attendees mailing list