Re: [93attendees] Network experiment during the meeting

Ray Pelletier <rpelletier@isoc.org> Tue, 14 July 2015 17:18 UTC

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From: Ray Pelletier <rpelletier@isoc.org>
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Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 13:19:09 -0400
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References: <55A41BEB.3090102@hs-augsburg.de> <55A41FD7.5030906@dcrocker.net> <55A4B86B.3000907@hs-augsburg.de> <55A513C9.4030601@dcrocker.net> <55A5182E.9000504@Opus1.COM> <55A51C67.3000008@hs-augsburg.de>
To: Rolf Winter <rolf.winter@hs-augsburg.de>
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Cc: Joel M Snyder <Joel.Snyder@Opus1.COM>, Dave Crocker <dcrocker@bbiw.net>, 93attendees@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [93attendees] Network experiment during the meeting
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Rolf, and all,

We will inquire as to Czech and EU.

Ray
IAD

> On Jul 14, 2015, at 10:27 AM, Rolf Winter <rolf.winter@hs-augsburg.de>; wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am not a lawyer so anything I say is solely based on common sense, which probably means that legally speaking I am wrong. Just for the folks that have not read the description of our experiment, we solely talk about broadcast data. 
> 
> I have actually talked to our lawyer here, and her spontaneous suggestion was to ask whether one of the participants/sponsors from the Czech Republic could ask their lawyers/data protection officers if such an experiment would be OK under Czech Republic law? I found that a smashing idea. Anybody on this list who could help out? 
> 
> Best,
> 
> Rolf
> 
> Am 7/14/15 um 4:09 PM schrieb Joel M Snyder:
>> 
>> 
>> On 7/14/15 3:51 PM, Dave Crocker wrote: 
>> 
>>> You are doing an experiment.  It involves human subjects, since humans 
>>> are generating the traffic you will be monitoring.  You are not 
>>> obtaining their explicit permission. 
>> 
>> This would not be considered human subject experimentation.  Simply because humans are involved in an activity does not make it human subject experimentation. 
>> 
>> You have to be actually interacting (or otherwise affecting) the human subject.  Gathering data passively is not considered human subject experimentation, unless the data are PPI. 
>> 
>> You *could* argue that the data being collected could possibly be private data, since a naive Wi-Fi user might have some expectation that their Wi-Fi data were not being watched, and thus the information would be private.  This was used as an argument to condemn Google for capturing Wi-Fi data as they drove around. 
>> 
>> However, you could also argue that at a conference, in a hotel, there is no expectation of privacy of the Wi-Fi data.  And you could argue doubly (or triply) so that IETF users as a community are not so naive as to expect their Wi-Fi data to be private. 
>> 
>> jms 
>> (PhD, veteran of human subjects committee wars...) 
>> 
>> 
> 
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