Re: [93attendees] _No_ network experiment during the meeting

Joseph Lorenzo Hall <joe@cdt.org> Tue, 21 July 2015 06:47 UTC

Return-Path: <jhall@cdt.org>
X-Original-To: 93attendees@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: 93attendees@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ECA31AD0A1 for <93attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 20 Jul 2015 23:47:51 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.378
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.378 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622] autolearn=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eIVTtV8oFMFY for <93attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 20 Jul 2015 23:47:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-la0-x229.google.com (mail-la0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C559A1AD09D for <93attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 20 Jul 2015 23:47:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by lagw2 with SMTP id w2so111106482lag.3 for <93attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 20 Jul 2015 23:47:48 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cdt.org; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=tHQjwJtAIMOku6+zP+v0NMpeX1Hr+WuzjwPLO9snPWQ=; b=UZwLQZ6qtd7dgCqjc3eTmMOFQfB8YGKmY2fih+YNto3cbLLWBhYuiD3MR6aJAEyowI Cwu7Dr9NEgPrPONQGllccuh7/JcYh7jVDcZfGwAQacVekJZQCAFgzsOy/Np5nycXvIsk /fvs+eDBnPVIENn+QI1wGQxn78Wn5wMSzHqB0=
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=tHQjwJtAIMOku6+zP+v0NMpeX1Hr+WuzjwPLO9snPWQ=; b=Mg3qk6W0IrmAzQE9Iz1btoFKfo00baIlqqmc6gVv6nz/PqEbRN/EF+yZc6ruNURH96 QmE6flQBGVx4jhm/7fEQYr03zLx6bhne5kdaSsNyt4+OTOh4B1nkgLNpVQOLIGNbjK4c HnztT0IGmj77zoOb1tq86qMRf2DzyztrEkCY86WGCpC50hFK8zWxAdFrCEa1bW2ecdz3 z5dDS15m4Pj7aLRMY5y11FhLxMYRNLHcllQeC/Rtn3FEcN7EaHxJDlFEKGvpPV6D6gml wKO7FjR9P5hjeYnK2lEz/Vc4GinK/tpTHvuvThrLrLmvPBMIOd6o58HH7TdoQnwVlvh/ lclw==
X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmCWsnN9tWnDfBc/QlY4Hora9h0rMFI3EfBrOYoA/K27ZlHf+zXQppGJ/RL3dF7bwJzYj9p
X-Received: by 10.112.46.130 with SMTP id v2mr30974423lbm.119.1437461268233; Mon, 20 Jul 2015 23:47:48 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.25.159.78 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Jul 2015 23:47:28 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <55ACF73F.5050603@aclu.org>
References: <55AAAE92.7010007@hs-augsburg.de> <D1D1DB10.510D7%evyncke@cisco.com> <CAO_Rpc+oq18vZatdYZ-M1bJMtSVJ0HLZ+SFoAsC_vR_Ott=6Nw@mail.gmail.com> <55ACA6A2.1000204@hs-augsburg.de> <649F40A1-8E18-4F57-8EDA-ECFCC7B7D3B0@piuha.net> <55ACF73F.5050603@aclu.org>
From: Joseph Lorenzo Hall <joe@cdt.org>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 02:47:28 -0400
Message-ID: <CABtrr-VrqKnAh8wNDjgtfHfaLamsw5otXb+Fz-b0jM6EavvsKA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@aclu.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/93attendees/VuA7Yhj5h8O-gfLXVzRcYgCk9bg>
Cc: 93attendees@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [93attendees] _No_ network experiment during the meeting
X-BeenThere: 93attendees@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Mailing list of IETF 93 attendees that have opted in on this list. " <93attendees.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/93attendees>, <mailto:93attendees-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/93attendees/>
List-Post: <mailto:93attendees@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:93attendees-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/93attendees>, <mailto:93attendees-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 06:47:51 -0000

On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 9:27 AM, Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@aclu.org> wrote:
> I'm glad that we recognize as a group that broad network experimentation
> should require ethical review, and i hope that in this case, the review
> should conclude that this particular experimentation should proceed.

100% agreed and could not have said it better myself; we just need to
do this thoughtfully, and that appears to be where this is headed.
Part of the struggle here is to build the ethical norms into research
norms and then some day we'll only have to worry about the legal side
of the question (which is not trivial, but in no way insurmountable).

best, Joe

-- 
Joseph Lorenzo Hall
Chief Technologist
Center for Democracy & Technology
1634 I ST NW STE 1100
Washington DC 20006-4011
(p) 202-407-8825
(f) 202-637-0968
joe@cdt.org
PGP: https://josephhall.org/gpg-key
fingerprint: 3CA2 8D7B 9F6D DBD3 4B10  1607 5F86 6987 40A9 A871