Re: [97attendees] Shirt sizing

Jeff Haas <jhaas@juniper.net> Sun, 13 November 2016 05:53 UTC

Return-Path: <jhaas@juniper.net>
X-Original-To: 97attendees@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: 97attendees@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55051129624 for <97attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 12 Nov 2016 21:53:01 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.922
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.922 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=junipernetworks.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UpFIFQ2JvlCX for <97attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 12 Nov 2016 21:52:59 -0800 (PST)
Received: from NAM02-CY1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-cys01nam02on0098.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.37.98]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 166C112943A for <97attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 12 Nov 2016 21:52:59 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=junipernetworks.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-juniper-net; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=m+ZBV597o4Z4Qf/b/KanRYxxAfguM/kxJlrZXlaGf/o=; b=L+yM8mxqJt1j7uZxQzuRaMLB0Uw0HkShaPe6pmt9lMNe/S0vsizZNJBYXihKyKi0+Oalo/NjEFQCP6XzDsdm1cMS+KD1HzPS+wjqSVm3MFl4oXbF/btTVlJhnQrCQMEIptZzRfaA3m4lgHQFwWcZszb9Z6Us1CAP1dpGXRFNx8I=
Received: from SN1PR0501MB1821.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.163.131.144) by SN1PR0501MB1821.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.163.131.144) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.721.4; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 05:52:57 +0000
Received: from SN1PR0501MB1821.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.163.131.144]) by SN1PR0501MB1821.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.163.131.144]) with mapi id 15.01.0721.015; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 05:52:57 +0000
From: Jeff Haas <jhaas@juniper.net>
To: David C Lawrence <tale@akamai.com>
Thread-Topic: [97attendees] Shirt sizing
Thread-Index: AQHSPWhTAj13OL7VOEuGM1rx/Yy8pg==
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2016 05:52:57 +0000
Message-ID: <FECAD013-21F9-4454-92E2-C3E0BB5A1DB9@juniper.net>
References: <CAHw9_i+UjXMXGmHjxipFNBLS00kZLJkqH=gyxniz21qFPtokLw@mail.gmail.com> <f21385f4-c32c-4565-af9f-431b165a5841@gmail.com> <22567.57195.870393.268027@tale.kendall.corp.akamai.com> <E90A5E1B-4BF5-45CD-ADA6-96C5EE3B2F9D@juniper.net> <F4DA1E61-8225-4830-BD38-C69E01A014F1@nohats.ca> <9846EE46-8CEA-41B8-A3C9-3D93268296B4@juniper.net> <22567.64818.976667.146595@tale.kendall.corp.akamai.com>
In-Reply-To: <22567.64818.976667.146595@tale.kendall.corp.akamai.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=jhaas@juniper.net;
x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1
x-originating-ip: [122.216.203.178]
x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; SN1PR0501MB1821; 7:x8HB8x+W4bS696t0Nqh8NA7Ri+w+daQSeVKO+0fClG5+VfNjg+uvehiNNuPWm5uuBrOsHD+wo/d4uf2+hrf3ilXhQdIcTkh3gh4pKYjIzk8fPUef9O7pz4l9n65DlUubwlmQtLDoBoMvgNyn4koH1kOUSfffd/nQtjKTHRwv3IzWWd+Tgg0tEwa0aexLI2mQQ7PrfMVPqtstjo+D0Eiy2/BJDFbs4wyIszSf+cobEUjcEStYeriv5kxNfnF6HbWKTpn9M/75YhUUJC6NAA99ZD/pS4APu6d1s593WKEWpOq7V5hTxlz0yhskmSPhwEF0sxYz8prApt6VBCiq6ds26ObDgfXwcJY1UPqAC7l+JRU=
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:SKI; SCL:-1SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(7916002)(336003)(199003)(24454002)(377454003)(189002)(93886004)(229853002)(68736007)(2900100001)(82746002)(33656002)(7736002)(102836003)(6116002)(4326007)(2906002)(3846002)(305945005)(189998001)(87936001)(7846002)(3660700001)(92566002)(586003)(3280700002)(83716003)(122556002)(6916009)(36756003)(2950100002)(97736004)(8676002)(66066001)(77096005)(76176999)(81166006)(81156014)(86362001)(8936002)(105586002)(106356001)(106116001)(50986999)(54356999)(101416001)(110136003)(99286002)(5660300001)(104396002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:SN1PR0501MB1821; H:SN1PR0501MB1821.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en;
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: b78950a1-474c-4eb2-5527-08d40b8951c1
x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(22001); SRVR:SN1PR0501MB1821;
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <SN1PR0501MB1821B6863541164B108C9B97A5BD0@SN1PR0501MB1821.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:;
x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(6040176)(601004)(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(3002001)(10201501046)(6055026); SRVR:SN1PR0501MB1821; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:SN1PR0501MB1821;
x-forefront-prvs: 012570D5A0
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: juniper.net does not designate permitted sender hosts)
spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99
spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-ID: <3529484A6AD27648A6F9D530A9FDFD01@namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 13 Nov 2016 05:52:57.4210 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN1PR0501MB1821
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/97attendees/FK1xXlZwOsZa2qzd9X2amWgIjnc>
Cc: "97attendees@ietf.org" <97attendees@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [97attendees] Shirt sizing
X-BeenThere: 97attendees@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Mailing list of IETF 97 attendees that have opted in on this list." <97attendees.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/97attendees>, <mailto:97attendees-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/97attendees/>
List-Post: <mailto:97attendees@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:97attendees-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/97attendees>, <mailto:97attendees-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2016 05:53:01 -0000

> On Nov 13, 2016, at 2:42 PM, David C Lawrence <tale@akamai.com> wrote:
> 
> Jeff Haas writes:
>>> On Nov 13, 2016, at 1:54 PM, Paul Wouters <paul@nohats.ca> wrote:
>>> America is not the world. 
>> 
>> No, but that's a very American jump to conclusion that you did there. :-)
> 
> To be clear, I wouldn't remotely suggest that anyone should conform to
> America's notion of sizing.  People just want to know what size shirt
> to get, and I was merely offering one frame of reference.
> 
> If in the future getting the right size means dispensing with this
> whole notion of S/M/L/XL and I have to learn my measurements in
> centimeters or gaz or etzbas or whatever, then so be it.

That was also one of the pieces of feedback.  However, "fit" is something that doesn't seem well represented on the size charts.

For example, the shirts used in Berlin had a size chart in line roughly with US sizes.  Obviously the fit ended up being "generous". :-P

My conclusion at the end of the exercise was that the inputs provided by the manufacturer aren't sufficient and that it's necessary to get samples at the relevant sizes and compare them vs. some baseline.

-- Jeff