[abnf-discuss] ABNF updates

Doug Royer <douglasroyer@gmail.com> Sun, 20 November 2016 21:21 UTC

Return-Path: <douglasroyer@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: abnf-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: abnf-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC22A129411 for <abnf-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 13:21:33 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.7
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VZWpOhoN69Nn for <abnf-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 13:21:31 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-oi0-x233.google.com (mail-oi0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C0AD127735 for <abnf-discuss@ietf.org>; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 13:21:31 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-oi0-x233.google.com with SMTP id y198so3425636oia.1 for <abnf-discuss@ietf.org>; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 13:21:31 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=to:from:subject:organization:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version; bh=y3Zclp12w54Zd+KrNGy7YBNNJkCYA8hLTpOk9thOW6I=; b=tF6Oodk+DlaF7Rntnr7g72lPXL6woCLLL3PwpfTZg0wqfASgiBPfIkHdzg/HqGAT5A uuMM9RHJe2q3zNN6l5Bu5NNspn9ls9guC54gKJj8kQqDBBrtmgCEUzkF3GdgkJelfpuE Lv/w8IjT/NdazjbgzXV6l3ZLb869P0tVcE1H2RbldPXP7ieFdDQlPxIjnGnZvBk9rjbR h0YmhGxfIAfTxHdG1PJfxB3EBY5giVHqIGNaB9SEw2c/Xrdy75d/RSOKT7f3NSvbMPO5 fj3rwxZ6aPT1EuC1MpTkCpIY3oPEDSFNI+XbKch/wrcZDwsBq+5v8vk5XsrXMEixz0i/ MkPw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:subject:organization:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version; bh=y3Zclp12w54Zd+KrNGy7YBNNJkCYA8hLTpOk9thOW6I=; b=TNOvqnyx4Fjar/EzuNYJTxonu99TCEyd/P1S4TU8SkkL9u08CYdfH4uk1vuWnTz+M+ DMWsbwOyv9j//lNA+pDCGb0mjbsOvPafKVWQ9af8o0dc9cPP11DISGYk2JT0bsi7Y9Cz fDr8clM4AOuYzFJrjSrOlvc7yC6rEnu0FrLMjasv2KdLV8VIQS+lqKK/AebQqv3Qx3ps Yz/iCnpqOwb5AwLCZHVw0xP/fjAmUJ0pmuM/E82OO/gPzHF1LhD4LLz+GLGFcgUqU7ur FiKhdopEd6pYzmA/sl700brK4niELrxkf60LWC7pcVmSG00xJC5tYDO5Ymswt3djxN+B axJg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC021yIqyDY4vJxsWkiO9VfBMrXoJlrw5gPJUag3y2Pv5rqUKqzZuQMGtf7m1jwjbtg==
X-Received: by 10.157.40.176 with SMTP id s45mr7048456ota.16.1479676890849; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 13:21:30 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.1.4] (184-99-114-23.boid.qwest.net. [184.99.114.23]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id g22sm3175737oib.17.2016.11.20.13.21.30 for <abnf-discuss@ietf.org> (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 20 Nov 2016 13:21:30 -0800 (PST)
To: abnf-discuss@ietf.org
From: Doug Royer <douglasroyer@gmail.com>
Organization: http://SoftwareAndServices.NET
Message-ID: <583213D9.7050107@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 14:21:29 -0700
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/43.0 SeaMonkey/2.40
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg="sha-256"; boundary="------------ms030301070709070501030902"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/abnf-discuss/WqC8obirfOv8ZwZWw7_N6RbeCv4>
Subject: [abnf-discuss] ABNF updates
X-BeenThere: abnf-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: "General discussion about tools, activities and capabilities involving the ABNF meta-language" <abnf-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/abnf-discuss>, <mailto:abnf-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/abnf-discuss/>
List-Post: <mailto:abnf-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:abnf-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/abnf-discuss>, <mailto:abnf-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 21:21:34 -0000

(I broke this out of the thread because the topic has changed)

Just more of my opinion.

I too have written an ABNF parser. Its not something I ever wanted to 
release. I use it to create a bunch of templates for developing code 
based on ABNF. Then the templates are updated into real code. Much of 
what it generates is tossed as it generates extra stuff my particular 
application does not need.

The reason ASN.1 is difficult, is because protocols can be difficult, 
ambiguous, and can have convoluted exceptions. Then someone needs to 
merge it with something new, so it get updated and more complex.

The current ABNF is somewhat easy to understand. The constrained draft 
is not somewhat easy to understand.

I just don't see the constrained proposal as making future drafts more 
clear to a reader. Perhaps it does make it easier for a programmer. And 
where would making it easier for a programmer stop?

Looking forward to updates to constrained!

However external reference stuff will be great in helping avoid 
misunderstandings by specifying exactly what is being referenced. And it 
eliminates using comments a the protocol definition which I have missed 
more than once, or incorrectly applied to the line above or below the 
correct ABNF.

-- 

Doug Royer - (http://DougRoyer.US)
DouglasRoyer@gmail.com
714-989-6135