Re: [Ace] [EXTERNAL] Re: Martin Duke's No Objection on draft-ietf-ace-oauth-params-13: (with COMMENT)
Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com> Thu, 25 March 2021 19:06 UTC
Return-Path: <martin.h.duke@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB3813A2A48; Thu, 25 Mar 2021 12:06:19 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.096
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MmXUgjl-xCjX; Thu, 25 Mar 2021 12:06:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-io1-xd35.google.com (mail-io1-xd35.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9884A3A2A47; Thu, 25 Mar 2021 12:06:14 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-io1-xd35.google.com with SMTP id k8so2942075iop.12; Thu, 25 Mar 2021 12:06:14 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=BXAD55S2iZIjqk/NlAN7JYYM2HgqiYUZE7W/4mHMMWE=; b=PmEjxSV9zbP3HhyOTpvFlkYXO2qU2f7Q9ucQO3tAixqUuqgpzdqFLg0tiMfQZ9653P rhxt9uv8OjOTb4i4J+2A7VPN6GiAni7WaSoNakf5vmlwuByk8yQC47GIqvncRcrtxhDv brxnDiOtw7x95dwj1c4/BY0cnpP9hOgVy12e8Ax1aFuNzM4+Fgy5+TYot46kaFrfpURu aWsExxTWzfF+IafYps56LjQ1sADfsAiD88yRhNQQldMJoc35xiIeuygFRGdkZEOtl5/P eZgd3a0y/waw1OcPmESXAuAcARjr+kBmRONfWCQA2l02CXs0Qd2Ep7GIDQgQNHm418iL rzoA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=BXAD55S2iZIjqk/NlAN7JYYM2HgqiYUZE7W/4mHMMWE=; b=AxaW1lLr39rMKyoPzuf0R5tTqgEvvJ5Dofmgri1/3EjyBQprOoFNciC+/Lpactj1Wz ifGsQZ/OEwl3AgyS3Nm9IE8kwCS9fWxqQ6omwPlxVOP39YCt+i5EPdoOCMqXfa+0cI8/ dQZyLkNjPDfqFNI3qJxi34CNcqOlJMZGDVu1WzIna+cs59sk1vwh72TNYKoWP8hbEbmZ xqI7VzJn2cvusEI9poai/dKLr3edgbWbwdpfcNtMEUGIGZGgywJC4nq1p8KrxMNAA6Wn D8acGWKafCmSQ2ZshTGxLQUMwfeUjLehSp5kDKS/JiZw3+vaBGRnd4kdFXEppoXJPcOD 9Bxw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530Qd3JaeNxhAAXYOeMoOUk5IA65DnmziJl7kugMs3UV6H+c/Mcb lZbWp2JXstcWDuYUemJ/OOi+HOMJpeuSbJAdF+OjnwMnI4IZbQ==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw44MUXe64gnfdBsc22CSNJCS7C5TMI3faznJI0fsWbKVPVGF71pWS0D2vr/uBB/QOjuBW9flquNOYAkbmawOc=
X-Received: by 2002:a5d:8ad2:: with SMTP id e18mr7620672iot.51.1616699172423; Thu, 25 Mar 2021 12:06:12 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <161609309354.6073.6421666447862558561@ietfa.amsl.com> <20210321021639.GL79563@kduck.mit.edu> <b14728f2cff34d2cbfe651f761e05eb5@combitech.se>
In-Reply-To: <b14728f2cff34d2cbfe651f761e05eb5@combitech.se>
From: Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 12:06:02 -0700
Message-ID: <CAM4esxTk2jnCyu8jPgYgjDUomFGz+RfBD0jdhmCtNeHV4QRBqA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Seitz Ludwig <ludwig.seitz@combitech.se>
Cc: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "ace-chairs@ietf.org" <ace-chairs@ietf.org>, "ace@ietf.org" <ace@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ace-oauth-params@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ace-oauth-params@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e18d2a05be611bb7"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/BfBYyKX118Gu6jFOsCmECMWp7RM>
Subject: Re: [Ace] [EXTERNAL] Re: Martin Duke's No Objection on draft-ietf-ace-oauth-params-13: (with COMMENT)
X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" <ace.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ace>, <mailto:ace-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ace/>
List-Post: <mailto:ace@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ace-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace>, <mailto:ace-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 19:06:20 -0000
LGTM. Thanks On Wed, Mar 24, 2021 at 12:42 AM Seitz Ludwig <ludwig.seitz@combitech.se> wrote: > Hi Martin, Ben, > > If I were to change the offending sentence like so: > "It is RECOMMENDED that an AS reject a request containing a symmetric key > value ... (Note: this does not apply to key identifiers referencing a > symmetric key)" > > (the "Note..." part being the new clarification), would that help making > the intention distinction more visible? > > /Ludwig > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu> > > Sent: den 21 mars 2021 03:17 > > To: Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com> > > Cc: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>; ace-chairs@ietf.org; ace@ietf.org; > draft-ietf- > > ace-oauth-params@ietf.org > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Ace] Martin Duke's No Objection on > draft-ietf-ace- > > oauth-params-13: (with COMMENT) > > > > Hi Martin, > > > > On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 11:44:53AM -0700, Martin Duke via Datatracker > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > COMMENT: > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > In sec 3.1 it says the AS SHOULD reject req_cnf if the key is > > > symmetric. But in Sec 5 it presents a totally reasonable use case > > > where the C and RS hold a previously established (symmetric?) key. > > > These observations are somewhat contradictory. Should 3.1 include a > > > qualifier. Would the AS know about this key a priori so that it can > > > ignore the recommendation? If not, how can this be done safely? > > > > I think there is a subtle distinction between the two cases, if I am > > remembering correctly. In particular, in Section 3.1 it says that "[i]t > is > > RECOMMENDED that an AS reject a request containing a symmetric key > > value", and the last word ("value") is important! This is saying, if > the client > > tries to propose to the AS the actual symmetric key to be (encapsulated > in > > the token and) used to secure C/RS communications, the AS typically > should > > reject it, since a constrained client is likely to have a much worse RNG > than > > the AS. If, on the other hand, some out-of-band management system has > > provisioned a symmetric key shared by C and RS, that key is presumed to > be > > strong, but in the scenario depicted in Section 5 it is "the > key-identifier of a > > previously established key between C and RS" that "req_cnf" conveys. > > Note that this scenario is only the identifier, not the key value itself. > > > > This is clearly a pretty subtle distinction to make, and if you have any > > suggestions for how to word things to make it more obvious, we'd love to > > have them. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Ben >
- [Ace] Martin Duke's No Objection on draft-ietf-ac… Martin Duke via Datatracker
- Re: [Ace] Martin Duke's No Objection on draft-iet… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [Ace] [EXTERNAL] Re: Martin Duke's No Objecti… Seitz Ludwig
- Re: [Ace] [EXTERNAL] Re: Martin Duke's No Objecti… Martin Duke