Re: [Ace] FW: WGLC comments on draft-ietf-ace-dtls-authorize
Jim Schaad <ietf@augustcellars.com> Sun, 10 March 2019 17:18 UTC
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From: Jim Schaad <ietf@augustcellars.com>
To: 'Benjamin Kaduk' <kaduk@mit.edu>, 'Göran Selander' <goran.selander@ericsson.com>
CC: draft-ietf-ace-dtls-authorize@ietf.org, ace@ietf.org
References: <029e01d46a3e$72bad330$58307990$@augustcellars.com> <87a7mnv7ls.fsf@tzi.org> <990DB036-3144-4729-8FB1-8E25E704E2DA@ericsson.com> <005401d4d162$9f0c9870$dd25c950$@augustcellars.com> <250DA6EB-8B59-42D1-877E-ABA1149100EB@ericsson.com> <20190310170952.GB8182@kduck.mit.edu>
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Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2019 10:17:35 -0700
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Subject: Re: [Ace] FW: WGLC comments on draft-ietf-ace-dtls-authorize
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> -----Original Message----- > From: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu> > Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2019 10:10 AM > To: Göran Selander <goran.selander@ericsson.com> > Cc: Jim Schaad <ietf@augustcellars.com>; draft-ietf-ace-dtls- > authorize@ietf.org; ace@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Ace] FW: WGLC comments on draft-ietf-ace-dtls-authorize > > On Fri, Mar 08, 2019 at 04:01:26PM +0000, Göran Selander wrote: > > > > On 2019-03-03, 02:44, "Jim Schaad" <ietf@augustcellars.com> wrote: > > > > I am responding to the review below in regards to the most recent > version -06. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > Section 3.3 - Figure 4 - Where is the 'alg' parameter defined at that > level? > > > > > > See next comment. > > > > > > [GS] alg parameter included > > > > > > > Section 3.3 - I am always bothered by the fact that PSK should really > be > > > PSS > > > > at this point. The secret value is no longer a key and thus does not > > > > necessarily have a length. There is also a problem of trying to > decide > > > what > > > > the length of this value would be based on the algorithm. If the > client > > > > offers TLS_PSK_WITH_AES_128_CCM_8 and > > > TLS_PSK_WITH_AES_256_CCM_8 (I may > > > > have gotten these wrong but the intent should be understandable) > then > > > what > > > > length is the PSK supposed to be? > > > > > > I think what you are saying is that for the shared secret (k) in the > > > COSE_Key structure in Fig. 4, the AS needs to tell C what to do with > > > that shared secret? This was the intention of the alg parameter > (which > > > has a not-so-useful value in this example). > > > > Some of what is done here makes sense and some of it makes no sense > at all. > > > > Happy with the removal of the "alg" parameter in the root map. > > > > Happy with the addition of the kid parameter in the COSE_Key object > since this is required for doing DTLS w/o sending the token as the identifier. > > > > I have no idea what the algorithm is doing here? This is not currently a > COSE algorithm, it is a TLS algorithm and thus would not make a great deal of > sense. > > > > GS: I admit this does not make sense, neither here nor in Fig. 6. > > > > The terms of what the PSK length should be would be better covered by a > statement along the lines of "When offering and/or accepting a TLS > cryptographic suite, the length of the PSK should be at least as long as the > symmetric encryption algorithms that are offered." This may already be > pointed to in the TLS documents and thus can be referenced to rather than > stated explicitly. > > What would you do with a PSK that is longer than the input needed by the > symmetric algorithm in use? Ben, we are talking about TLS and this is the pre-shared secret. It is an input to the KDF function and is not a symmetric algorithm key. Jim > > -Ben > > > GS: > > 1. If the PSK is not uniformly random, the security level is not given by the > length. I note in the ACE framework: "The AS generates a random symmetric > PoP key." Perhaps we should add 'uniform' to this text? > > > > 2. About the proposed text, how about making it into a consideration: > "Note that the security level depends both of the length of PSK and the > security of the TLS cipher suite and key exchange algorithm." I didn't find any > text in TLS that I could reference.
- [Ace] FW: WGLC comments on draft-ietf-ace-dtls-au… Jim Schaad
- Re: [Ace] FW: WGLC comments on draft-ietf-ace-dtl… Olaf Bergmann
- [Ace] FW: [core] FW: WGLC comments on draft-ietf-… Jim Schaad
- Re: [Ace] FW: WGLC comments on draft-ietf-ace-dtl… Göran Selander
- Re: [Ace] FW: WGLC comments on draft-ietf-ace-dtl… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [Ace] FW: WGLC comments on draft-ietf-ace-dtl… Jim Schaad
- Re: [Ace] FW: WGLC comments on draft-ietf-ace-dtl… Benjamin Kaduk