Re: [Acme] Considerations about ACME BoF
Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com> Tue, 31 March 2015 22:02 UTC
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From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
To: Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>
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Cc: Yaron Sheffer <yaronf.ietf@gmail.com>, "acme@ietf.org" <acme@ietf.org>, Scott Rea <Scott.Rea@digicert.com>
Subject: Re: [Acme] Considerations about ACME BoF
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On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 2:03 PM, Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net> wrote: > On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 11:03 AM, Yaron Sheffer <yaronf.ietf@gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi Scott, >> >> On 03/31/2015 01:22 AM, Scott Rea wrote: >>> >>> G'day Yaron, >>> >>> I will make 2 brief observations: >>> >>> a) Max and I actually proposed some usability focused work around TLS >>> certs to the PKIX WG about 6 or 7 years ago, when PKIX was still going >>> strong, and we were told that usability is not the purvey of IETF, its >>> purely bits on the wire. So when did IETF morph from bits on the wire to >>> now include usability? >>> >> The IETF works on bits on the wire that are necessary to achieve business >> goals. And those goals certainly include usability. > > ... the IETF also works on what the participants in the WG happen to > decide is interesting to them. > > Perhaps 6 or 7 years ago the participants in the PKIX WG simply didn't > like your proposal, and decided that they didn't want to work on it. > The "usability isn't the perview of the IETF" may have simply been a > politer way of saying "ick". > > I have an idea for protocol that is unusable, and doesn't really > benefit anyone. The protocol is simply bits on the wire; it doesn't > necessarily follow that the IETF will want to work on it :-P Actually, there was a W3C working group on TLS usability round about that very time. So it might have been simply that W3C had the speaking stick at the time. There are two sorts of usability considerations that affect IETF protocols. One is user experience design which we don't actually do. The other is user convenience which has always been in scope. Having to enter information manually into six different systems isn't a user experience issue but it is user convenience.
- [Acme] Considerations about ACME BoF Massimiliano Pala
- [Acme] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: Considerations about A… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Acme] Considerations about ACME BoF Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Acme] Considerations about ACME BoF Anders Rundgren
- Re: [Acme] Considerations about ACME BoF Massimiliano Pala
- Re: [Acme] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: Considerations abo… Martin Thomson
- Re: [Acme] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: Considerations abo… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Acme] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: Considerations abo… Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [Acme] Considerations about ACME BoF Leif Johansson
- Re: [Acme] Considerations about ACME BoF Salz, Rich
- Re: [Acme] Considerations about ACME BoF Scott Rea
- Re: [Acme] Considerations about ACME BoF Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Acme] Considerations about ACME BoF Scott Rea
- Re: [Acme] Considerations about ACME BoF Leif Johansson
- Re: [Acme] Considerations about ACME BoF Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Acme] Considerations about ACME BoF Jeremy Rowley
- Re: [Acme] Considerations about ACME BoF Martin Thomson
- Re: [Acme] Considerations about ACME BoF Yaron Sheffer
- Re: [Acme] Considerations about ACME BoF Scott Rea
- Re: [Acme] Considerations about ACME BoF Richard Barnes
- Re: [Acme] Considerations about ACME BoF Salz, Rich
- Re: [Acme] Considerations about ACME BoF Yaron Sheffer
- Re: [Acme] Considerations about ACME BoF Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Acme] Considerations about ACME BoF Warren Kumari
- Re: [Acme] Considerations about ACME BoF Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Acme] Considerations about ACME BoF Leif Johansson
- Re: [Acme] Considerations about ACME BoF Massimiliano Pala